Savage Model 12FV vs. Remington VLS

R

RyanD

New member
Thanks to a bunch of folks on here my Dad has narrowed his choices for a .243 to a Remington VLS and a Savage 12VF.

I hate to say this on here, but I have always thought of Savages as a "low end" rifle but mostly because I have always shot Remingtons. I know there have been a lot of improvements on these rifles the past few years so please tell me which rifle would be a better choice between these two.

Thanks!
 
Savage is NOT a "low end" rifle manufacturer. Their price point is very attractive and affordable but this is not indicative of poor quality or performance. As a matter of fact, the majority of Savage rifles are sub-MOA right of of the box, a characteristic not shared by rifles of current Remington production. That's not to say that Remington makes a bad rifle, just that they frequently require trigger work, stock modifications, etc. before they are MOA or better. This is not the case with the vast majority of out of the box Savages.
I'd put my 12FV in .223 or 10FP-LE1 in .308 up against any Remington on the market. The 12FV will put 5 rounds inside 1.5" @ 300yds and the 10FP is under 2" @ 300yds on a regular basis (when the guy behind the trigger does his job!).
Bottom line is both are good rifles and should perform for your father well. However, I believe that the Savage is better from the get go...
 
You will likely get better out of the box accuracy from the Savage, but a lot of folks think they are pretty ugly.

You will definitely get better resale value out of the Remington, and if you have any thoughts of customizing it, the Rem is the way to go.

Leon
 
I have a Remington .223 VSSF and a Savage 12FV. The Savage will shoot with the Remington any day. I bought both of them used and they are both shooters. I paid half as much for the Savage which was a non Accu-Trigger model. I replaced the trigger with a Sharp Shooter Supply one and I like the trigger better than the one on the Remington.
 
I have 2 FVSS savages among the collection and they will shoot as well or better than my remingtons. I am not sure why a remington is better for customizing except that their are a few more stocks available (Savage synthetic stocks are junk, but the savings can by a nice Boyds or B&C). Most savages do not need customized to shoot extremely well and if you do choose to customize the savages are user friendly for most changes. If you have been shopping for used savages you will find very few bargin guns in the accutrigger models. Shooters have realized how good they are and snap them up.
 
jagrdawger-I think the reason Rems are preferred for customizing has as much to do with experience as anything.

Just about any accurizing gunsmith has trued and blueprinted numerous 700 actions, to the point that they are almost the "standard". Blueprinted Rem 700 actions are the basis for too many competition winning guns to even count.

Other manufacturer's actions may be potentially as well suited, but not many smiths do them.

Leon
 
Leon,

I new the answer was coming, but I just had to stir the pot a bit. Savage's design saves a lot of need for the customizing (ie the floating bolthead reduces the need for truing bolt faces, etc...). Savages have a long way to go to get a name in the competitive games, but they are starting and a few smiths are having very good success.
 
Ryan for what it is worth i feel your pain. I am a nothing else but a die hard remington fan, but i just got a 204 encore and now i'm possible looking at a 12FV. Why? the savage has a longer barrel for one and if you look at the past history of savage them have always made darn good factory barrels. In the past the triggers on the old savages were junk, but now with the new accu-triggers they have come along way. For the money it looks like they are hard to beat. If you look across the form most of the guys here shoot Savages. I do feel that there is something to be said that if most of the guys here run these guns there must be something to them. Trust me that was hard for me to say!
 
Already been said. I "was" a Remington fan for years. Until one of the guys that teaches sniping told me to buy a Savage 4 years ago. My signage below says it all.
 
When I heard that Savages provided better accuracy than Remingtons a few years ago I bought 7 of them in a 6 month period. I couldn't stand their looks and the fit and finish was horrible but I was in search of better accuracy without having to employ a custom gunsmith.

Yep... The 5 of the 7 Savages I bought gave me marginally better accuracy than most of my Remingtons BUT!!!!

They were butt ugly!!!
The barrels were horribly rough inside on 5 of them and I got tired of endless copper removal headaches.
The triggers were abominable and even the Accutriggers wouldn't adjust down below 3 pounds except on one of them and Savage just didn't care.
They were butt ugly!!!
Resale value was HORRIBLE and I almost had to give them away when I tired of them.
The factory stocks were clunky and shaped by people that must have been flipping burgers last week.
They were butt ugly!!!
Savage customer care people were all women that had never fired a gun before and had a big city New England accent and attitude... Needless to say I was less than happy with that.
They were butt ugly!!!
I spent an inordinate amount of time lining up scopes and had to use 20mm Signature rings on BOTH ends to get them on target without taking the scope reticle adjustments to the edge of adjustment range. This was finally attributed to scope mounting holes being drilled WAAAAAY crooked. In two of the rifles you could actually see that with the naked eye.
They were butt ugly!!!
I don't consider the barrel nut idea to be an advantage except to someone with no life at all... C'mon... Who really rebarrels their own rifle? If it don't shoot sell it or send it to a pro for a good custom barrel and good luck finding a custom gunsmith that wants to mess with one.
They were butt ugly!!!

Just in case y'all think I only like Remingtons I also have owned a bunch of Rugers, Winchesters, Marlins, Thompson Centers, Tiikas, Brownings, and a few NEFs.

The only ones I rant about are the Savages and the NEFs...

I liked the rest just fine but settled on Remingtons because of accuracy and availability of parts. Plus... They're pleasing to the eye and despite what I/we all say.. I think that's important too.

"Life is Too Short To Hunt With An Ugly Gun" (Shamelessly plagiarized from Chic Worthing but pointedly true)

$bob$

p.s.... OH.. Did I mention that the Savages are butt ugly?
 
IDhunter
That is too funny to believe. My Savage shoots with or better than all of my other guns which include Remington, Winchester, Weatherby, Smith and Wesson and a few others. There is nothing more ugly than a high priced gun that doesn't shoot well. I now have 3 Savages I'm working at getting the last two to the range. The first one shot near 5/8" on the last trip I've done a little tweaking and we'll see how it fairs on it's second trip to the range. Yep going to sit right down next to some Remmy guy and see what will be.
 
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Idhunter pretty much sums it up for what I have to say about the Savage. Plenty of people believe Savage are accurate guns and that I agree, but they are not made to please the eyes that's for sure.
The ugliness and rough finish of a Savage I can force myself to tolerate but the one thing I’ll never forgive Savage for is their trigger (old and new), you would think after they spending all that time copying Glock they can at least take the extra step and get rid of the wobbliness in it.
 
Bob,

I rebarrel my own Savage rifles, and guess what...It is
really slick.

But I do agree, my Tikkas are very pretty, and my Savages...
well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think they
are "real purty", when I get to screw on a custom barrel,
in about 10 minutes, and have it shooting bug holes, quickly
after a barrel swap.

I wouldn't call my son's Remington 700 handsome, either.
The fit and finish were not well done, so some
barrel channel relief work was done, and the trigger needed
to be de-lawyered, to just get it decent. My son is a
college student, and doesn't have money for taking a
factory rifle, and making it shoot. If he would have
gotten a Savage, then dear old Dad would have not had to
help the poor college student get his rifle shooting well.
Again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I would buy a Savage, in a New York minute, over a
Remington, based on what comes out of Remington, today.
And smile all the way home, at the targets the Savage
shot.

Squeeze
 
Hey IDhunter : Let me understand you correctly. Are you trying to say the Savages are "butt ugly" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif As we all know some butts are better looking than others. Uglyness is in the eye of the beholder. They look pretty darn good to me when I get down range looking at those groups and look back at the bench at those pretty Savages /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Al,

Yes... You DO have a point there... I can think of a few butts I've seen that weren't so ugly at all... In fact there was a time... Well... That's another story for another time and place. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

While it's true that Remington had some accuracy issues for a few short years there the last 10 or so Remington rifles I have bought ALL shot under 3/4" and since most of those are/were hunting rifles shooting hunting bullets I didn't get too crazy with shrinking those groups.

One exception is a 308 Titanium model that seems to want to throw fliers that open groups to 1.25" and although that might be acceptable for some hunters for a 5.25 pound rifle it's making me a bit crazy. I think I'll go up in bullet weight because it doesn't seem to like 150gr bullets or maybe I've lost my touch.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Also a couple of those Remingtons were of the fat barreled variety and those both shoot groups that hover right around the magic half inch mark.

When I had the Savages for awhile there I only had one rifle that shot consistently under a half inch and it was a 10FP in 223 (the only one with a good AccuTrigger) and I sold that rifle and am still mad at myself. That was also only one of two Savages I ever owned that didn't foul the barrel very much. It was a hummer with almost any bullet I ever fed it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

$bob$
 
I have two new Savages that I bought within the last two years. I love both of them one is a .204 the other is a .17hmr. They both shot great right out of the box 1.25 moa. And they shoot better when someone else shoots them. I have numbness in my hands cuased by some nerve damage that makes it hard to shoot a regular trigger. The Savage trigger is a dream for me.

As for the way they look everytime I look at my non shinney, no glare, can't see the scratches from falling rifle. I think of the 200-300 dollars that I saved and I wonder why someone would pay more just for looks. The only gun that I am looking at is a Marlin 30-30. Becuase that is what I used the most when I was younger learning to hunt with my mother.
 
I guess that the fact that there's a significant price difference between houses, cars, etc. indicates that most people would disagree with you.

$bob$
 


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