Short Range Deer Rifle Suggestions??

Originally Posted By: bushythe good ole winchester 94 is awfuly quick in the brush. 30-30 is a dead deer out to most real michigan whitetail yardages.

I 2nd that The Winchester94 is a great gun 30-30 375 45-70 all great
 
I have taken many pigs and deer with my M77/44mag in the river bottoms here in northeast Texas. Thickets mostly where a 75 yard shot is a long one... The old time tested lever action 30-30's have taken more game out of these bottoms than probably most of the others combined. My dad and grandpa still hunt with 336's every year. Heck, it's all they've ever had...
 
a tc encore in 444 marlin it has a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel. or a 6.5 creedmoor(16 1/4" MGM heavy factory barrel).

 
200 yards is pushing it for a 30-30. Any of the standard deer cartridges will work from 243 on up to 30-06. Get a short action bolt action Savage new or one of the more expensive brands used to stay under $1000.

I shot at a 6 point buck at 20 feet and missed cause the bullet hit a 1/4 inch diameter dead branch with a 30-30. The deer was confused and trotted right in front of me and I dropped it on the second shot. Brush busting is B.S.
 
I'd have to side with the thoughts on brush guns being about short easy handling guns, rather than shooting through bushes. You want something that is easily maneuverable, doesn't hang up every time you turn, every time you try to pull up to take a shot in cover. Look for a carbine, or youth model in whatever caliber/action you choose.

If all you're looking for is the occasional shoot a deer standing behind a bush, pretty much any caliber will do that... IF he's standing right behind the bush. If he's standing 10 yards or more behind said bush, then you get into the deflection issues everyone is warning you about.

Personally, I wouldn't opt for a 30-30 in bolt, although given the new leverevolution ammunition, it might prove very interesting. I'm sort of a purist when it comes to some guns, and the 30-30 lever action is just something that was meant to be, in my book. If I'm carrying it in brush, I don't want a scope on it either. And personally, I prefer the Marlin 336 action for several reasons, over the model 94. Have owned both, know they both have their strong points and weaknesses.

If you're dead set on bolt in 30-30, and I'm assuming looking for accuracy, see if you can find a Remington 788. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=451699100#PIC
 
I just bought a used 760 remington in 308...... I have no use for other than I always thought one would be cool.. and it is way different than the 204's 243's bolt guns that I own... flat sided easy carrying like a model 94 / or 336... got the punch of the 308... i wanted the pump... never wanted a 742.. no gas rod problems with a pump
 
While I agree any bullet will be deflected by hitting brush the real question is by how much, a larger heavy slower bullet will be deflected less if the deer is right behind the bush shouldn't be a problem. If the bush is 20' in front of the deer you can have a problem. To me the bullet tumbling is more of an issue then a bullet deflected 1/2 an inch. Where I hunt in Missouri brush is always an issue, often you can't see small twigs with iron sights or a low powered scope. The best bullet for brush hunting has always been the round ball. A bullet not going to take a 90 degree turn because it hit a twig, hit one with a light high speed bullet and it may fragment.
 
Not going to argue about killin bushes and deer simultaneously but the old jm stamped marlins have worked well in the thick stuff.



I prefer aperture sights over a scope, but to each his own.
 
Originally Posted By: MattkccWhile I agree any bullet will be deflected by hitting brush the real question is by how much, a larger heavy slower bullet will be deflected less if the deer is right behind the bush shouldn't be a problem. If the bush is 20' in front of the deer you can have a problem. To me the bullet tumbling is more of an issue then a bullet deflected 1/2 an inch. Where I hunt in Missouri brush is always an issue, often you can't see small twigs with iron sights or a low powered scope. The best bullet for brush hunting has always been the round ball. A bullet not going to take a 90 degree turn because it hit a twig, hit one with a light high speed bullet and it may fragment.

REALLY? Are you for real? Have you done any research? Have you killed 100's of deer shooting through brush piles in order to post this hogwash? Round bullets do better? Really ??!?!?!? I've heard this exact statement for years and it doesn't hold water. It's been repeated and handed down by folks who have no idea what they were talking about.
 
I don't know you Hidalgo so I won't argue with you. I do however think that research means nothing compared to in the field experience. For anyone thinking I'm talking about taking shots straight through 50 yards of brush at deer, you're wrong. But deer stand behind bushes and walk behind branches all the time. And I mean directly behind them, aka less than 10 feet.

I actually currently own a model 94 in 30-30 but don't want use it because its in absolutely perfect shape with only 4 bullets down the barrel. Doubt it will ever be worth anything more than it is now but I just don't want to use it. I am a bolt action guy. I love the accuracy. But I may just have to buy another 94. Maybe I'll get a different caliber.

The other option I really like is a Ruger 77, mkII or tang safety. I own one in .243 (the gun I killed my first two deer with). Maybe I'll try to find one in another caliber.
 
You obviously still haven't researched bullet deflection. Inches behind a "twig" and the deflection will shock you. Stop thinking and do some research. Or are you going to make someone else find it for you?


Chupa
 
I hunt in a thick swamp for deer. The experience we have learned over 30 years of hunting this land is a flat fast moving round is ultimately your best bet 25-06, .280rem .270win come to mind. Now take into account 90% of our shots are less then 100yrds and with a good set of binos and some planning you can have many hole or lanes to shoot through planned out before the deer arrives in your area. Is it going to eliminate deflection no. If you have a hole to shoot through that's at least a foot or two big the flatter shooting rifle will get there with out deflection.
 
I'll give you a first hand account of shooting through brush. I worked a business deal with a guy last year and secured deer hunting permission on 1600 acres of prime Cheyenne River Breaks. In my area this is country some people pay 5,6,7000 dollars to hunt. It is monster Muley country and easily the best ground I've ever had. Well what happens? I draw a whitetail tag.

With my hopes diminished I go deer hunting, not really expecting to see much for whitetail. Not ten minutes out of the pickup and a BIG whitetail crosses from the neighbors property and heads down a draw into the thick cedars. He hadn't seen me so I followed figuring I'd never find him in the thick stuff. As soon as i cross into the cedar draw I look up and I am staring him face to face at a range I later figured out to be about 35 yards. I realize he's not just big he is a bona-fide monster, I have about a tenth of a second to decide if I want to try a shot through the small "brush" that is directly in front of him or risk losing him in the cedars and never seeing him again.

I made the WRONG decision and tried to shoot through the "brush" , I figured the 130gr SST moving nearly 3000fps should be able to penetrate cleanly enough and still kill this deer. I was wrong the bullet hit something in that brush and impacted the cut bank 3 feet over the his back and I never seen him again.

Now that was long winded and maybe off topic but the moral of the story is I screwed up what very well could be a once in a lifetime opportunity because I tried to shoot through the brush. The deer was standing maybe 1 yard behind the brush and at a total distance of 35 yards that bullet was still smoking when it got there. Had I played that scenario differently I very well may have a nice head mount hanging on my wall with a once in a lifetime story. But nope I'm stuck with nightmares of a 180" plus whitetail scampering away laughing at me.

Take the advice others have given you can not reliably shoot through brush with any gun or caliber it just doesn't work. Now having said all that how bout something like a Ruger Scout rifle in .308? Not really my cup of tea but people seem to like them and they should be fast handling.
 
I have seen bullets go straight through 1" saplings and tag alders and such. But only when hit dead center. And kill their target. If you hit off to the side of something, the bullet deflects.

One time, a 1" tag alder was snapped in half and actually lying on a dead deer. That was from a 130gr NBT shot out of a 270 Win @ around 55 yds. Again, the tag alder was hit dead center. Graze the side of it, and bullet would not have hit same place, or maybe not have hit deer at all.

Shooting through brush is never a good idea. Although, I have snaked a few bullets through. The idea of "brush busting" cartridges is a myth. There are none....
 
I had an experience 2 years ago that surprised me and by no means am I saying to try this! I was taking a shot at a doe that was 25 yards away. I was shooting between five small (2 1/2 -3") pine trees I was leaning to get a clear shot. I must have had my shotgun canted so the scope had a clear view view but the barrel was pointing at one of the trees. When I took the shot, the deer rolled off the edge of the short hill the trail was on. She got up limped ten yards and bedded down. The other four does milled around as they were confused where the shot came from. As the other deer were walking back the way they came, I noticed fresh wood chips near my empty case on the ground. I looked at the tree and there was a hole through the left side of it with the back blown out about one inch above/below the hole. I was using a 870 with 2 3/4 Winchester Partition Gold slugs. I do not know how or why I was so ucky to still hit the deer. I now have a much better understanding about the relationship between the height of the scope and the bore of the gun! I understand what happened is THE exception and not the rule.

As someone stated earlier I would recommend a small diameter flat shooting rifle that can shoot between the branches if the shooter can do their part.
 
I think the term " brush gun " has been greatly taken out of context to the extreme !

When I hear the term " brush gun " I think of a fast handling carbine or a short handy big bore, that is more forgiving in the shot placement department. Since most brush hunting shots are at running game or in the thick stuff, less than perfect shots are taken. Large bores can make up for these less than perfect shots. Fast shooting guns such as lever actions, pumps, and semi autos can also bee forgiving in smaller caliber brush guns, where a fast follow up are needed to make a clean kill after a less than perfect initial shot.
Until case or cat team up with a firearms manufacture to build a short carbine that will fire a D11 dozier projectile I don't see many guns consistently being able to cut down brush and game with a single shot.
 
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Quote:2-7 power scope

I have used a 1.75 to 5 power Tasco for years another reason I have had so much success in the thick stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: MattkccWhile I agree any bullet will be deflected by hitting brush the real question is by how much, a larger heavy slower bullet will be deflected less...

This bold statement is not accurate. I'd have to do some digging to find the article(s), but it was a few years ago, maybe 10? that someone did quite extensive testing and disproved this old wives tale. Contrary to popular belief, their researched proved that larger, slower bullets tend to get deflected MORE by brush, as well as have higher likelihood for incidental impact due to their "taller" trajectory, larger surface, and larger meplat.

So come around to modern thinking... the old "throw a bowling ball at 'em" theory has gone the way of the dinosaur...
 
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