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It came across as it being implied that I supported the two notions. Where's the "sidestep"?



When you answered my questions to Pyledriver it made me wonder if you supported his suggestions. The side step was you accusing me of a pathetic attempt to put words in your mouth.

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No, a gazillion can't be measured, but it is understood as "a lot." Are we picking nits now?



No there’s no nit picking. I’m just amused that you can at one moment throw out a meaningless term for the amount of oil present and in the next question the accuracy of a USGS report.
 
The real sidestep was you not answering who I "belittled." You also have not offered a substantive reason for not drilling ANWAR. I pointed out that the estimate was an estimate. Big deal. Sometimes the USGS can be wrong. I'm no geologist, but it's fairly safe to say there is a lot of oil there. If it's five billion barrels, so be it. That's five billion barrels we wouldn't have to import from somewhere else and that can only be a good thing.
 
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The real sidestep was you not answering who I "belittled."



When you implied that those who are against drilling in ANWAR are “environutcases and other leftists who hate (American) capitalism.” Now can you prove that all those who oppose drilling in ANWAR fit this description? Can you even prove that the majority of those who oppose drilling in ANWAR fit this description? Now you might be able to prove that a few of the people who oppose drilling in ANWAR fit this description. To try and paint all these people with the same brush is belittling to the people it doesn’t apply to.

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You also have not offered a substantive reason for not drilling ANWAR.



If for no other reason that the old “line in the sand” theory and the domino theory. These places were set aside to protect them from the ravages of mankind. The plan was to protect them for generations to come and yet we see our resolve already weakening. At the very least we need guarantees that the drilling would be done safely and that alternative energy sources are being developed and if these guarantees come from the current administration it will be difficult to have any faith in them.
 
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Tin Foil hats? So people are crazy for trying to help a cause that they believe in? Atleast Ron Paul supporters are genuine.




Yeah, the majority of them are a genuine bizarre collection of white supremacists, anti Semites, 9/11 truthers and global anarchists. You decide for yourself whether you're in that majority. There are some fine people that support him, and that's their right to do so. At least until the NWO takes over and sends them all to reeducation camps.



I disagree with that assumption. I would also like to remind you that many of us Paul Revolutionaires love our 2nd amendmant rights...and if it comes down to it i(and i bet the majority would agree) wont be afraid to exercise those rights in order to defend my FREEDOMS AND LIBERTIES.
 
"When you implied that those who are against drilling in ANWAR are “environutcases and other leftists who hate (American) capitalism.” Now can you prove that all those who oppose drilling in ANWAR fit this description? Can you even prove that the majority of those who oppose drilling in ANWAR fit this description? Now you might be able to prove that a few of the people who oppose drilling in ANWAR fit this description. To try and paint all these people with the same brush is belittling to the people it doesn’t apply to."

That is without question who lead the charge in opposing it. One only has to look at the "public awareness campaign" that was produced to see their intellectual dishonesty. In the footage, we saw beautiful mountain ranges. We saw eagles diving into crystal clear rivers for salmon. We saw polar bears and caribou frolicking. Then the scary music starts and a grim voice warns us that Bush and his oil cronies want to destroy it all! "Call your Congressman today to stop this injustice!" The problem with the whole production is that NONE of the footage was filmed in ANWAR! Those are the lying nutjobs I'm referring to. Nowhere did I say all who were in opposition to drilling ANWAR were environmentalist whackos. Many of those in Congress who opposed it did so simply because Bush proposed it and out of partisanship and a consuming hatred for the President. Arm twisting by the Dem leadership for those on the fence bolstered the numbers further.


"These places were set aside to protect them from the ravages of mankind. The plan was to protect them for generations to come and yet we see our resolve already weakening. At the very least we need guarantees that the drilling would be done safely and that alternative energy sources are being developed and if these guarantees come from the current administration it will be difficult to have any faith in them."


What is there to protect? It is more or less a barren wasteland. There are no people there. There are no spotted owls, kangaroo rats, manatees, redwood trees or rare salamanders there. Our footprint would be miniscule in relation to the overall land mass. The EPA and other red tape artists would be all over it to ensure those evil oil companies don't rape every inch of it. Is it really better to buy that much oil from Chavez?
 
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Tin Foil hats? So people are crazy for trying to help a cause that they believe in? Atleast Ron Paul supporters are genuine.




Yeah, the majority of them are a genuine bizarre collection of white supremacists, anti Semites, 9/11 truthers and global anarchists. You decide for yourself whether you're in that majority. There are some fine people that support him, and that's their right to do so. At least until the NWO takes over and sends them all to reeducation camps.



I disagree with that assumption. I would also like to remind you that many of us Paul Revolutionaires love our 2nd amendmant rights...and if it comes down to it i(and i bet the majority would agree) wont be afraid to exercise those rights in order to defend my FREEDOMS AND LIBERTIES.




Nor would I hesitate to defend my 2A rights by using a firearm. I agree with Ron Paul on several issues. Right to life, 2A, reckless federal spending, over taxation, border control, the size and scope of government and the Federal Reserve. Just because we agree on those subjects won't make him an effective President. I also believe there will one day be a one world government. I wouldn't call it the New World Order, but it will happen. Because Ron Paul says so? No, it's been predicted in Scripture. You keep looking beyond the FACT that he won't get the nomination. If he's serious about getting his voice heard, then he should run as a libertarian where he would stand a reasonable chance at getting nominated.
 
Dang. This thread is keeping me from work... LOL!

Rimmy, sorry I belittled you. I think you focused on Dawg, but it was me and I shouldn't have said what I did. I see where you did understand my point about needing to stay on our current energy source for awhile longer, and DO agree that we need to be working diligently to find the next fuel.

Nuking Iran..hmmm..yes, but with tactial nukes meant to destroy what we need to, not the entire country! All joking aside about glass parking lots and Disney Middle East! What I don't understand is why you want to characterize anything said by a conservative as the extreme case?

All this started about Ron Paul..and trolls. Don't like Ron Paul. Don't like trolls. Done. Over and out to finish my pesky work so I can go on vacation! Wish me luck in my hunting! I'm really outta here this time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

"Don't like Ron Paul. Don't like trolls. Done." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Shoot straight Pyle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Goin' after deer or yote?
 
I dont know that it is a fact, the voting hasnt taken place. Even if he doesnt get the vote, he has brought so many subjects to the table, and because of that a lot of americans have woke up. So if he isnt elected, his message has been heard..and it will only get louder as the years go on.
 
Pyledriver, you haven’t offended me and I hope I haven’t offended you. I hope you have a great hunt and have some pictures to share with us when you get back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Dawg, you keep referring to ANWR (I’ve been wrong calling it ANWAR) as a moonscape that’s of little value other than oil. Now I’ve never been there but the description that I have linked to shows a much different picture. http://arctic.fws.gov/ Have you been there or do you have sources that dispute this?
 
For one thing, we happen to have a track record. We've had nukes since WWII & yet we have used them only once & that was to to end that war at an estimated savings of 600,000 allied lives, plus the Japanese that would have died if we had invaded the island.

Iran has vowed to wipe Israel off the map, is led by a president who believes in his religious doctrines including the 12 Imams & has also ranted about our destruction.

If you think us having nukes is so bad, please, give me an historical example of where we have been bad custodians of them. I'm unaware of one.
 
As for Ron Paul, I generally like him. However, his position as I see it on islamic terrorists is for me a deal breaker.

Unless I'm missing something he thinks that we can just pull everyone home & the bad guys will suddenly play nice. Having spent some years in the middle east I utterly disagree with that notion, based on what I learned while I lived there.

Now, it's possible that I do not understand his position on this correctly, but it seems many others understand him the same way as I do, so it's either not bloody likely that we're wrong or RP has been utterly ineffective at communicating his position.

At this time I can't vote for him, as I think this position is a path to our nations suicide. I could be wrong, but then so could RP.
 
"There are no people there. There are no spotted owls, kangaroo rats, manatees, redwood trees or rare salamanders there."

Checked the link Rimmy and sure enough none of that stuff is mentioned as living there. The place is roughly 19 million acres. If we disturbed 1/10 of 1% of it that would be 19k acres. Is that not worth a big step towards American energy independance? Again I ask you, is it better to buy it from Chavez?
 
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"There are no people there. There are no spotted owls, kangaroo rats, manatees, redwood trees or rare salamanders there."

Checked the link Rimmy and sure enough none of that stuff is mentioned as living there.


Dawg that's weak, very weak.
 
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Again I ask you, is it better to buy it from Chavez?


If they drill ANWR what guarantee would we have that the US would quit buying from Venezuela? Do you think that Chavez will still be in office by time we get enough ANWR oil flowing to replace Venezuelan oil?
 
It will take about 6 years to see oil from ANWR from start to 1st production. If we had passed it & started when it was 1st voted on, we would be seeing that oil next year.
 
nary a clue, but if it isn't coming out of the ground it doesn't matter. Bottom line is that any way you look at it, that oil is a minimum of 6 years away from us every day we wake up. Unless we decide to use the area for what it was set aside for to start with & get going on it.

I would assume that during that 6 years, if necessary the pipeline capacity could be addressed.
 
I think Ron Paul wants to pull out of the middle east, and try to use diplomacy to work things out, not just military occupancy(we dont have the money to keep up being world police and nation builders). Our foriegn relation stance has a deeper agenda than just "keeping us safe from terror". The powers that be(not our president, he's just a pawn) will stop at nothing to create a global government.
 
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