Widow maker 223
Well-known member
I hope its grape cool-aid, I love that stuff. LOL
We Have A President Again
- Thread starter Stu Farish
- Start date
" sorry I interrupted the right-wing echo chamber. Let me correct myself:" In reality there is NO right wing echo chamber. Israel attempted to interrupt Iran enrichment, partially succeeded. Trump attempted to interrupt it also. Iran changed the game. The game is still in play. I mentioned early on about Cuba Blockade, you minimalized it. So where would the US be if Ru hadn't pulled the nukes from Cuba? No reply from you.
McArthur's Philippine plan didn't work and neither did the 'other' plan that was based on WWI tactics. So, Mac was a 'bad' guy. Then, read about D day. An officer had the 'plan' in his bag, got killed, Germans got the plan and we suffered dearly. Loose Lips sink ships. Trump wants an NDA for pentagon so plans don't get publicized. Pakistan just decided to make an emergency oil storage. Gee, about time. Get your head out of the sand and look around!
Other than 'feeling good' we DON"T need to know what happens in Hormuz. WE have NO impact!! We are not and never (hopefully) be in charge of Military stuff. So go back and pay the same (Biden) gas price and quit fussing.
McArthur's Philippine plan didn't work and neither did the 'other' plan that was based on WWI tactics. So, Mac was a 'bad' guy. Then, read about D day. An officer had the 'plan' in his bag, got killed, Germans got the plan and we suffered dearly. Loose Lips sink ships. Trump wants an NDA for pentagon so plans don't get publicized. Pakistan just decided to make an emergency oil storage. Gee, about time. Get your head out of the sand and look around!
Other than 'feeling good' we DON"T need to know what happens in Hormuz. WE have NO impact!! We are not and never (hopefully) be in charge of Military stuff. So go back and pay the same (Biden) gas price and quit fussing.
When I say the “good guys,” I’m not talking about restrictive ROEs — I’m talking about standing for something. Or at least what America has traditionally claimed to stand for.
We are supposed to be better than the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge, Serbs, or any of the other regimes that engaged in ethnic cleansing. That’s exactly the standard we hold ourselves to. What field grade officers and below do to carry out their missions, so be it. But for all intents and purposes, as a country, we should still be grounded in a sense of moral reality.
And when you look at our wars in the last 100 years, it raises real questions. Do we actually want to annex these places and inherit the full burden of rebuilding societies and infrastructure after we’ve reduced them to rubble through war? Or deal with the political reality of populations shaped by radical ideologies voting in our next leaders?
It’s not simply that I dislike Trump. I dislike being lied to.
And I refuse to fall into what Robert Lifton described as “thought-stopping” — where slogans, tribalism, and emotional reflexes replace critical thinking. I see this country spiraling deeper into that mindset every day.
You should look into it sometime...
You are kind of proving my point about the echo chamber without realizing it. The second someone questions the narrative, the response becomes “stop asking questions, trust the plan, the public does not need to know.”
I never said Iran was not disrupted. I said people are pretending this is some decisive end-state victory when even you admit “the game is still in play.” That is exactly the point. We went from “Iran cannot have nukes” to discussions involving financial concessions while enrichment capability and regional instability still exist.
And no, comparing this to Cuba is not the same thing. The Cuban Missile Crisis had a very direct and immediate nuclear standoff dynamic involving strategic placement 90 miles off our coast. Hormuz is an economic chokepoint tied into global energy and shipping markets. Different situation entirely.
As for military secrecy, obviously operational details should stay classified. Nobody serious is arguing otherwise. But there is a difference between protecting operational security and telling the public to shut up and blindly trust political narratives that keep changing daily.
That is the entire reason I brought up Robert Lifton’s “thought-stopping” concept. Phrases like “trust the military,” “you don’t need to know,” or “quit fussing” become ways to shut down scrutiny instead of engaging with the actual argument.
And saying “we have no impact” is strange considering ordinary Americans absolutely feel the downstream effects through energy prices, inflation, supply chains, and foreign policy consequences whether they understand the mechanisms or not.
Fellas, I’m honestly enjoying the banter. Hopefully we are all thick-skinned enough that nobody walks away with hurt feelings after all this. This is the Church of Painful Truth after all.
If I still drank, I’d raise a toast to every one of you. And I’m pretty sure half of this would come across with a grin and a laugh if we were all talking face to face instead of typing behind keyboards
If I still drank, I’d raise a toast to every one of you. And I’m pretty sure half of this would come across with a grin and a laugh if we were all talking face to face instead of typing behind keyboards
At the end of the day, we’re all on the same side here, even if we see some things differently.
And I’ll admit, I was out of line with the Kool-Aid sippy cup comment
… any of y’all been calling coyotes lately?
And I’ll admit, I was out of line with the Kool-Aid sippy cup comment
… any of y’all been calling coyotes lately?
Fair enough
I probably do come across like an autistic doomsday groundhog that just crawled out of a bunker screaming about oil markets and geopolitics. Now don’t worry, my hair is still its natural color… although after enough time in this forum it may turn gray instead of blue
Had a friend travel to Oklahoma this weekend to hunt coyotes with me — an old Jumpmaster from the 82nd.
The coyotes were not very responsive the first night, but we still managed to make a few things happen;
The second night was a little better. We only hunted until the moon set, but the coyotes cooperated a bit more for us;
As a thank you, he gave me this badass gift — something I’ll truly treasure.
Good friends, good hunts, and good reminders not to forget who we are and what we stand for;
The coyotes were not very responsive the first night, but we still managed to make a few things happen;
The second night was a little better. We only hunted until the moon set, but the coyotes cooperated a bit more for us;
As a thank you, he gave me this badass gift — something I’ll truly treasure.
Good friends, good hunts, and good reminders not to forget who we are and what we stand for;
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Same here, as well
In most of my post's I lead into the fact that at one point in our history after the Great Depression and prior to the Vietnam era (started in 1962). We as a nation could watch the rest of the world engulf itself in wars or whatever embargoes they needed to do. Literally if they quit shipping to us it really didn't make a impact on us as a whole. Sure most of the Trinkets would have dried up... saving the land fills I guess. We didn't need the rest of the world to supply us. That self reliance was handed away by our own governments. (yes it's plural to include the local, state, and federal level). That is what bothers me. It simply takes longer to build something back than to simply hand it off.
I'll attack this another way to make the point the absolute highest I can recall gas prices spiking during the oil embargo in the 1970's was IIRC about $1.50 /gal. It most likely was a bit lower, but $1.50 sticks in my head. We had a POTUS telling us that the answer to combat high heating cost was to turn the heat down and put on sweaters. That didn't bode well for him. But back to the $1.50 of the mid 1970's adjusting for inflation that is equal to about $8.98 in today's dollars. Just a observation that might have some solace for some. Maybe not. Just a attempt at one perspective at a impact.
On a side note the annual gopher launching contest this year has been cancelled for My Buddy and I. Evident by my typing this which we would have been on the road by now. Due to economic situation, that honestly has nothing to do with fuel cost. But never the less has cancelled the trip. Rather than be mad or upset / sad I'm looking forward to maybe next year, if that doesn't happen well heck I've always have the memories of the past trips. While ending on a sad note, I'm not sad just accept it for what it is, things like this happens.
ooohhh forgot great job on the Yotes Jeremy!
The byproduct of capitalism is always chasing cheaper labor, faster growth, and bigger returns for shareholders. Companies spent decades shipping jobs and manufacturing overseas because it made more money, while the rest of us got addicted to buying everything cheaper, faster, and easier. Trump saw where it was heading years ago when he started hammering on trade deals and trying to bring manufacturing back home.
But the truth is, we did it to ourselves too. We keep demanding online orders, same day shipping, drone deliveries, and everything instantly at our doorstep. Somewhere along the line we traded standing on our own two feet for convenience...
The irony is Trump was the first POTUS to call out how dangerous our dependence on global manufacturing had become. But now it feels like the focus shifted from rebuilding self-reliance at home to using military force to stabilize the same system that made us dependent in the first place...
From the outside it looks less like a plan and more like managing chaos—empty threats, walk-backs, and a version of modern-day pirates while the core issues get deferred. That’s what happens when you’re trying to restore the system instead of fixing the dependence underneath it. I guess you could say we are winning and everything is going as planned...
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Agreed, but it was done far before Amazon etc next day delivery, and drone was a actual reality.
Heck it was long gone before he even actually stepped down the escalator to announce to run for office.
I as a cheapskate am just as guilty as anyone. I hate actually paying MSRP or full retail. While I gripe and complain I am fully aware that I contribute to the problem. Not that I'm advocating foolishly overpaying for a product either. I seem to recall POTUS Clinton (whom I thought was the devil incarnate at the time) addressing the loss of manufacturing jobs saying we will replace manufacturing with "service jobs" which even then I thought was a sham and shame. It wasn't overnight most of us longer in the tooth folks know that we actually got to watch it slowly leave. Many of us recall the first Datsun, Toyota imports into the US, Dodge using Mitsubishi to make the Colt for them, the Omni, right along side the Pinto, Maverick, Vega and the revamp of the Charger II and Mustang into a economy car being introduced.
Actually no, not the first. Merely the first that many actually listened to. I seem to recall several candidates such as Ross Perot (trust me ther was others I just can't remember the names right now) make the same claim unto deaf ears. With many going "oh heck that will never happen".
Hummm IDK that is exactly true or not.... We stand a greater chance of being self oil independent within our own hemisphere (understand I'm including South America here). Than say Europe does. We both agree greed or rather the search of higher revenues for the share holder rules the roost. So when the demand goes up like it has we export more vs selling domestically. Just a thought, now is there a way to curtail that ... kind yeah. but not really popular is the ... crap can't think of the law ... oh ITAR, under EAR aka Arms Export ACT. which fuel can be included the same as computer chips and system are done.
I Honestly can't say it is the fact.... I'm positive that quite a few of the things he is attempting to fix have went south. Not that with his personality he would ever admit it. But honestly we all got to see that personality trait long before he swore in the first time. That trait is extremely common among business men.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
Personally I think on this term he is merely plugging the holes is a leaking dam. Trying to keep the flood waters back.
Does that excuse him? No not at all, it merely explains some of it ... maybe.
I agree whole heartily his failure was not stating the true end goal which in my "opinion" is a regime change. Here is where I always make the Woodrow Wilson reference to the Russian invasion by the US during the latter years of WWI. POTUS Wilson did the same thing, only to fail at ending the "Red Scourge" over taking Imperial Russia
Does that excuse him? No not at all, it merely explains some of it ... maybe.
I agree whole heartily his failure was not stating the true end goal which in my "opinion" is a regime change. Here is where I always make the Woodrow Wilson reference to the Russian invasion by the US during the latter years of WWI. POTUS Wilson did the same thing, only to fail at ending the "Red Scourge" over taking Imperial Russia
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
In my opinion one of the things that is working against the American public as well as other nations inability to connect the dots that Politian's make. Is the internet or truthfully the online media. Including BOTH side of the spectrum of crap we are being fed.
We (as in the world) have become lazy in our thought process we expect the full solution up front thinking the "battle space" is static not fluid.
Look I'm NOT making excuses for the man. But in my opinion to reset the clock it would have have to been way more violent, to prevent the "battlespace" from being fluid.
This means it would have needed a complete unconditional surrender in say 140 hours or less, certainly no more than 200 hours.
It would have needed to rival the devastation inflected on Germany by the allies in the final days of the fall of Berlin. Or the devastation inflected on the Japanese homeland with two bombs.
Again just a opinion, and even thinking about it I'm not sure the US nor the world has a stomach for such actions. Which is why if one needs to go down that path it need to be quick and violent before the world stage can even fathom a opinion. So yeah Iran would have hated me as a POTUS. Which I probably would have been impeached shortly after, but the regime would not have been in place either.
We (as in the world) have become lazy in our thought process we expect the full solution up front thinking the "battle space" is static not fluid.
Look I'm NOT making excuses for the man. But in my opinion to reset the clock it would have have to been way more violent, to prevent the "battlespace" from being fluid.
This means it would have needed a complete unconditional surrender in say 140 hours or less, certainly no more than 200 hours.
It would have needed to rival the devastation inflected on Germany by the allies in the final days of the fall of Berlin. Or the devastation inflected on the Japanese homeland with two bombs.
Again just a opinion, and even thinking about it I'm not sure the US nor the world has a stomach for such actions. Which is why if one needs to go down that path it need to be quick and violent before the world stage can even fathom a opinion. So yeah Iran would have hated me as a POTUS. Which I probably would have been impeached shortly after, but the regime would not have been in place either.
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Yes, well before Amazon, just in different forms. When cities built big malls, it pulled traffic away from downtown main streets and slowly hollowed out mom-and-pop businesses. Then big box stores like Walmart scaled it up even more, flooding the market with mass-produced goods that small local stores couldn’t compete with on price or volume.
I’ve got a little grocery store in a small town near me, and you can see it firsthand—they’re just trying to survive in that same system.
Sgt_Mike
Well-known member
sorry about the misclicking to get the bullseye on there ... agggh not coordinated this morning.
I will say this on the Big box stores though they all started as a mom and pop of sorts. Especially Wal-mart did , the difference was the dream was larger.
That is not to say that they should have been edged out or hindered in growth.
I will say this on the Big box stores though they all started as a mom and pop of sorts. Especially Wal-mart did , the difference was the dream was larger.
That is not to say that they should have been edged out or hindered in growth.
World War II was centralized industrial warfare—clear armies, clear command structures, and outcomes that followed collapse at the top. Iran is fragmented and asymmetric. Cheap drones, dispersed launch sites, and proxy networks are being countered with carriers, battleships, and million-dollar interceptors built for a different era. It’s a mismatch between 20th-century force design and 21st-century warfare.
And history shows something else clearly: airpower and long-range strikes alone rarely win modern wars. I’m trying to think of a clear example where it did. Without control on the ground and true regime change, pressure campaigns tend to drag on and on.
Even the first Gulf War required a ground component to secure the outcome, and the Vietnam War saw more total U.S. bombs dropped than in all of World War II combined—and we still lost despite having ground forces involved. It reinforces the same point: more force to include boots on the ground does not point to a quick win or surrender. Especially when you compare the size of Iran to these other countries, and we have yet to even target their infantry, internal security forces, and all the factions of mujahedin guerrilla fighters inside Iran, and the ones that would pour in from other countries to fight a holy war against US forces. Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan saw it happen.
I do not think America has the stomach to see the casualty count that would come from a full-on war inside Iran with boots on the ground. Which leaves one option: tactical nukes.