We would like for all in the industry to know.....

GS

GS

New member
We have worked hard thru the years to protect our sounds and the work did not stop with the sale of the company in 1999. If anything it has become more neccessary due to the advent of the digital age.I have posted below a Press release that has been made available to the industry:


Hunter's Specialties Wins Judgments
Over Unauthorized Use Of Johnny Stewart Sounds

November 2009

Press release and image is available by clicking on the image or by going to
www.howardcommunications.com


Over the course of the past year Hunter's Specialties has obtained court judgments and injunctions against three separate companies for unauthorized use of its copyrighted Johnny Stewart sound recordings.

The copyright infringements included said companies playing the copyrighted sounds on their web sites and allowing the sounds to be downloaded from their sites. There were also unauthorized sales of hand-held and remote calling devices loaded with the copyrighted Johnny Stewart sounds.

The companies in question have admitted infringing on Hunter's Specialties valid copyrights and have agreed to remove the sounds from their web sites, refrain from further infringing activity, make payments to Hunter's Specialties, and in some instances destroy inventory of electronic callers using the infringing sounds.

"Johnny Stewart sounds are recognized as the purest, most authentic sounds on the market" said Hunter's Specialties Co-CEO David Forbes. "Our consumers are very important to us and we are committed to producing high quality products through our Johnny Stewart line. We will continue to actively protect the hard work and dedication that goes into the technology, design and development of these products. Hours of hard work went into creating the Johnny Stewart sounds and we will continue to protect the copyrighted Johnny Stewart sound recordings and enforce our legal rights."

For more information, log onto the Hunter's Specialties website at www.hunterspec.com, write to 6000 Huntington Court NE, Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52402, or call a Consumer Service Specialist at 319-395-0321.

# # #






Media Inquiries:
Mike Capps mcapps@howardcommunications.com

573-898-3422

Consumer Inquiries:
www.hunterspec.com
Or write to:
6000 Huntington Court NE
Cedar Rapids, IA 52402
Or call Consumer Service at
319-395-0321




 
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How is you reducing the availability of your calls a benefit to the members here? I don't understand why you would even post this. I see you didn't post which sites were sent take down notices. I'm sure none of them were predator hunting enthusiast sites right.
 
That's very good information, Gerald.

With websites that offer "Free Sounds" and even CD's sent out with products, sound encoding hackers, and all the copyright issues, it's easy to get lead down the "primrose path" with what sounds you get.

Not only are the companies that offer these sounds liable, but the consumer that uses the sounds, or processes the encoded sounds to play on an unauthorized medium could be liable.

I'm glad that some light is being brought to this issue.

I'm also glad that you guys, and others are taking what steps are needed to protect the integrity of the sound libraries that are VERY expensive to aquire.

Another thing that makes me glad is that those that use the unethical methods of pirating sounds are being found, and made to pay for their ecroachments.

It's always best to get the sounds from the company that has legitimately offered the sound. Whether they give the sound away, or sell the sound, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

Kudos to yourself & Hunter's Specialties for the hard, expensive work of legally bringing this subject to and through the court system!
wink.gif


Barry
 
GS, are you pointing your finger at PM Members? Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, sure seems like it. Instead of subtle hints and threats and a generic press release, why don't you name names?

Since you posted this on a site that, I've always assumed was targeted toward predator hunting enthusiasts, let us know who the badguys are, so we can avoid the trafficing of illegal sounds.
 
I always laugh when companies post these so called "Victory" press releases. Yet another short-sighted CEO. How much time and energy do you think was wasted on this? I understand going after companies that steal and resell your product, but shutting down websites that offer your files. I know, it's your property but is this really a problem? What percent of your customer base is actually going to not buy your product, download the sounds and program their own player? I seriously doubt it is over 1% even if your fuzzy numbers indicate otherwise. Seems like a lot of energy is being wasted here that could be used to expand your base maybe by increasing the popularity of predator hunting. Or showing consumer just how "superior" your product is.

Anyway, I'm in the market for an ecaller and was seriously going back and forth between the Johnny Stewart line and Foxpro. Foxpro it is.

Of course...I could be wrong...this is the same approach the record labels took and they are doing well...right?

Maybe one of our moderators could link this in the hunting forums as well so more members see what kind of a company they are supporting by purchasing Johnny Stewart calls.
 
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Ya know....I'm not picking any sides here, but I'd like to share my thoughts.

Johnny Stewart Co. spent a lot of time and money to create the sounds that they did. In return, you buy their products to get those sounds and Johnny Stewart starts to recover investment costs. In the end, Johnny Stewart makes some money. After all, that's why they are in the business.

When someone pirates those sounds Johnny Stewart looses. For every copy that is pirated, Johnny Stewart looses a potential monetary gain. That's why there are copyright laws. The pirating may have been unintentional by the unknowing, or intentional. Who knows?

I don't think GS was pointing any fingers at anyone here. I just think he was just informing us that copying his sounds is wrong and keeping us up to date on what is going on in his world as far as the problems he has had concerning this issue. I would also suspect that if GS knew of the exact person on this board (if there was one) that was doing it, they would have received a Private Message long ago.

I know as a call maker I don't want anyone making an exact copy of any of my unique or unusual calls.

WyoYote wrote:
Quote:let us know who the badguys are, so we can avoid the trafficing of illegal sounds.
I see your point WyoYote, because I've been to several sites where you can download various sounds. As far as I know, I have no way of knowing if it is a copied JS sound or one that someone made up on their own.

dtm6582 wrote:
Quote:I understand going after companies that steal and resell your product, but shutting down websites that offer your files.
The web site was not shut down, they had to remove the files from the web site.
Quote:The companies in question have admitted infringing on Hunter's Specialties valid copyrights and have agreed to remove the sounds from their web sites

But I will guess that there may be a legal reason that the names of the actual offenders won't be posted here. I don't really need to know anyway.

I know that there are other electronic call companies that are going through the same issues. Some posters are asking, "Why aren't the sounds free after we buy your call?" The bottom line is it takes money to produce those sounds. Ya gotta recover the cost somehow.

Just my thoughts.
Y'all have a good day.
Mark
 
Wow, it blows me away that people are attacking Mr. Stewart and Hunter's Specialties for protecting their own sounds.

I didn't see this post made by GS as a attack on Predator Masters members. To me it looked more like a warning to people in the predator calling industry and web-site owners to not illegally sell or give away sounds that Hunter's Specialties owns.

Great post Gerald! Thanks for the information.

Bob Morris
 
I was sincere in my request to have GS "name names"...and sincere in wanting to be 'in the know' of who the badguys are. I don't want to be downloading any illegal sounds, as I firmly believe in respecting copyrighted material. Other posters are correct, it takes alot of time and $$$ to produce these sounds...and you can't knock these companies for protecting their assets and intellectual property.

All I'm saying is, if GS was sending a 'shot across the bow' , who was it aimed at, and once again, to help us all be respectful and legal with predator calling sounds, name the names so we all know who to avoid. If he wanted this press release aimed at those 'in the industry'...send it to those folks, not the end-user.

On a personal note, I recently bought a slightly used FoxPro Fury that had 113 sounds downloaded. My best guess was that all sounds were purchased from FoxPro, but, just in case, so it can be verified that all of the sounds are 'legal', who can I send the unit to for the official "OK"?
smile.gif


 
Originally Posted By: sharkathmiYa know....I'm not picking any sides here, but I'd like to share my thoughts.

Johnny Stewart Co. spent a lot of time and money to create the sounds that they did. In return, you buy their products to get those sounds and Johnny Stewart starts to recover investment costs. In the end, Johnny Stewart makes some money. After all, that's why they are in the business.

When someone pirates those sounds Johnny Stewart looses. For every copy that is pirated, Johnny Stewart looses a potential monetary gain. That's why there are copyright laws. The pirating may have been unintentional by the unknowing, or intentional. Who knows?

I don't think GS was pointing any fingers at anyone here. I just think he was just informing us that copying his sounds is wrong and keeping us up to date on what is going on in his world as far as the problems he has had concerning this issue. I would also suspect that if GS knew of the exact person on this board (if there was one) that was doing it, they would have received a Private Message long ago.

I know as a call maker I don't want anyone making an exact copy of any of my unique or unusual calls.

WyoYote wrote:
Quote:let us know who the badguys are, so we can avoid the trafficing of illegal sounds.
I see your point WyoYote, because I've been to several sites where you can download various sounds. As far as I know, I have no way of knowing if it is a copied JS sound or one that someone made up on their own.

dtm6582 wrote:
Quote:I understand going after companies that steal and resell your product, but shutting down websites that offer your files.
The web site was not shut down, they had to remove the files from the web site.
Quote:The companies in question have admitted infringing on Hunter's Specialties valid copyrights and have agreed to remove the sounds from their web sites

But I will guess that there may be a legal reason that the names of the actual offenders won't be posted here. I don't really need to know anyway.

I know that there are other electronic call companies that are going through the same issues. Some posters are asking, "Why aren't the sounds free after we buy your call?" The bottom line is it takes money to produce those sounds. Ya gotta recover the cost somehow.

Just my thoughts.
Y'all have a good day.
Mark


I agree Mark... Come on guys, Gerald is not pointing the finger at anyone! To me I read his post to be a victory for another one of our predator hunting brothers...If a PM member here was taking any call sounds from any call company and selling them here at PM to make money or pirating sounds, THEN HE OR SHE WOULD BE GONE!!! Stealing is stealing no matter how you look at it...No different than someone coming on your property and taking something that belongs to you...Please dont take things out of context...Its all good....

Chad
 
Originally Posted By: sharkathmi

When someone pirates those sounds Johnny Stewart looses. For every copy that is pirated, Johnny Stewart looses a potential monetary gain. That's why there are copyright laws. The pirating may have been unintentional by the unknowing, or intentional. Who knows?


Hit the nail on the head. POTENTIAL, not actual. I don't think anyone on this forum or anywhere else will argue that stealing calls is OK. The reality is that the vast majority of their customers respect their copyrights (many wouldn't have a clue how to steal these if they wanted to) and that the vast majority of pirated copies never would have been purchased to begin with. The problem is that companies operate with limited resources. They can choose to expend those resources on this garbage, or they can spend it on innovation. Every dime they spend trying to enforce their copyrights is a dime not spent on their products.

So now your going to say the pirates are really the ones cheating us. Right? Maybe, but we can't control them. What can we control? We can provide capital to innovative companies dedicated to reinvesting in their products and improving the world for everyone. We just have to buy from them.

Not that I mind the lawyers getting rich...
 
Well, it seems to me that JS sounds were recorded and are the property of JS. That was a part of their success, and they spent money to develop them.
Anybody that came along later and pirated the sounds, then distributed them (for profit or not), is depriving JS of income they earned.

How would you feel if you spent a year recording a predator hunting DVD, then found out the first customer made a copy and gave it away free from a file download site?

Same thing.
 
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Originally Posted By: MCWALK
sharkathmi said:
Stealing is stealing no matter how you look at it...No different than someone coming on your property and taking something that belongs to you...Please dont take things out of context...Its all good....

Chad

Chad,

While I certainly appreciate the sentiment this is simply untrue. That's why in the media you will commonly hear these matters referred to as infringement, not theft.

In traditional stealing such as in your example above that person taking something that belongs you deprives you of its use. I.E. if you break into my home and steal my hunting rifle I am no longer able to use it/sell it/whatever.

However, if I record myself blowing into a predator call and you copy that material what damage has been done? I am still able to play the recording. I am still able to sell the recording. Heck, if you copied it from me without permission you probably weren't going to buy it anyway. And if I knew you were the kind of person who would take my material I wouldn't sell it to you to begin with.

I'm hesitant to even post this because the potential for misinterpretation is so high. I don't believe it is ok to take copyrighted material. Why? Because it is against the law and I am a law abiding citizen. But please don't confuse copyright infringement with traditional theft. They are not even close to being the same thing.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: Evil_LurkerWell, it seems to me that JS sounds were recorded and are the property of JS. That was a part of their success, and they spent money to develop them.
Anybody that came along later and pirated the sounds, then distributed them (for profit or not), is depriving JS of income they earned.

No, No, No...I think I'm turning blue. Making available, distributing, or even downloading does not deprive Johnny Stewart of anything. In order to actually deprive JS of income, a person who was going to buy the sound must be converted to one who downloads and uses without purchasing or permission.


Originally Posted By: Evil_Lurker
How would you feel if you spent a year recording a predator hunting DVD, then found out the first customer made a copy and gave it away free from a file download site?
Same thing.

Good question. At first, I probably wouldn't notice. I would be way too busy promoting my product, building distribution channels, visiting sporting good stores, talking with customers, signing copies, etc to worry about a few people who are watching my video for free. Then I would probably start working on another video after feeling out my clients. Finally, once I was totally out of ideas, was no longer able or willing to contribute new content and just wanted to sit back and make money doing nothing I would go after these guys.

Thank you for the perfect bait. I don't want my money going to a company that just sits back and collects. I want my money going to an innovative company that is bringing new ideas and products to my sport. When a company is able to focus on a few people pirating their products it is because they are no longer engrossed in what they do well...and it usually means they won't be doing it well much longer.
 
dtm6582 seems to me you have an axe to grind or something? You want everybody to see things your way...Like I said stealing is stealing no matter how you look at it, my opinion, ok? You also said that you was going to buy a Foxpro now because of what Gerald posted and he is not spending his money the way YOU want him too...Whats that? Im a big FoxPro supporter but Gerald and his daddy paved the road for all of us and I respect their company.... Hey no one is telling you how to spend your money,right? Buy what you want to, its your dollar....I will have you to know that Stewart Games calls is not the only call company that is fighting this mess of sound stealing...Ive heard it come from Geralds own mouth that he and Mike Dillon (FoxPro) have worked together on this and that they give each other the heads up when they find each others sounds on other websites that are not supposed to be there...

The Stewarts have already made it in the call buisness a long time ago...If they feel their product is inovative enough, well maybe thats the way they like it....They surely dont have anything to prove and their callers have called in countless predators to the gun barrel and Johnny Stewart is still selling game calls everyday...


Chad
 
Chad,

I think we can agree that we are all seeing things the same way. We all agree that using and distributing sounds without paying for them is wrong. It's why I'm so bullheaded on this issue. We don't really have an argument to begin with.

95% of the people who read this list will think I am pro piracy. I am not. Above you say many people are working together on this problem. The issue is that we don't really know if it is even a problem. Yes, people are using things you made without permission. How much is it costing you though? Really? Ask one of these guys. They will either shrug their shoulders or give you an inflated number an attorney or accountant made up.

I find it hard to believe the damage is 0. I also find it hard to believe the damage is 100% of the value of every sound pirated. It gets even more complicated because piracy does provide some value. It increases the exposure of your product. Maybe Joe pirated your sounds, but maybe Joe's buddy who hears them decides to buy your product based on the quality. If Joe would not have bought your product to begin with you have just gained a sale. Can it get any fuzzier?
smile.gif


The only argument I have made is that we as consumers should support companies that are investing in our future with the proceeds of our purchases. Do you disagree?
 
Wow this sure has turned fuzzy...I respect every thing that GS and his dad has done for this industry. I have called many of coyotes using JS sounds. I stand behind GS in saying that no one has the right to steal and sale sounds that do not belong to them,and we should help anyway we can by sounding the alarm when we find JS sounds being offered by persons or person not with the JS company.
 
As a couple have said in their responses, we want all of the potential competitors in this industry to know that we will protect what is ours. As for the end users of those sounds, we have seen our sounds traded for years between friends and have not sought to object to that in the courts. Even way back in the days of cassettes, we knew that people made copies for their friends and did not try to stop it.

It was when others put our sounds under their labels that we chose to stop them. You simply can not take something that belongs to others and sell it or give it away for your profit. In this digital age, the considerations for the “free” sharing of our sounds takes on a much greater significance when thousands can receive those sounds at the touch of a button. I won’t even try to address that issue here. That is for the lawyers to hash out.

I find it simply remarkable that anyone thinks that I am somehow going after the users of this site. Well, I guess I am, if you mean anyone who would take our sounds and try to profit from them. It has been excruciating for me to see posters talk about the “good” sounds they have downloaded from some sites knowing that they are getting the benefit and value of our sounds all the while thanking that site for the “free” sounds which in turn enhances their opinion of that company. In my opinion those offending companies receive a value from the “giving” of our sounds. I think the courts agree with us on that one.

If you have the ability to reproduce a very unique effective sound on your mouthcall and want to record that to give away to others that is great. You are fully within your rights to do that. I know I would feel it would be wrong for a company to then load that sound onto their Ecaller and use it to build value in their products which they make a profit on. That is exactly what has been occurring in this industry; not only with sounds that have willfully been put into the public domain but others that have not. I have a hard time understanding how anyone would fault us for wanting to protect the ownership of our intellectual property.

The two companies and one web site at issue all made monetary payments to us and ceased the use of our sounds. You are not knowledgeable of the number of companies that we have approached over the years outside of the legal system to stop them from their infringing (theft). Most stop willingly, truly because they did not know they were our sounds. Some stop because they are the kind of people that will take what is not theirs and benefit from it knowing some day they will have to stop. I have not and will not name companies that we have stopped over the years like this, but the list is an arm long and the names very recognizable.

In this case, this information is in the public domain and not hard to find. The most flagrant of copyright infringement came from Western Rivers Inc. They were given ample time to stop and forced us to pursue them in the courts. The other call company was a new company called The Kernel Game Call. Three of the 4 sounds they used on their unit were JS sounds. The web site that was giving away several of our fox sounds was Vulpes.org. They also were given ample opportunity to respond to our attempts to contact them about the matter.

Western Rivers had a number of violations on their website as well as over 20 violations on their Night Stalker Ecaller. In the past year alone I have contacted 4 others companies and\or websites about the use of our sounds. I have even approached others about links they provided to sites giving away “free” sounds. They all exhibited character in how they dealt with the problem which makes for an easy settlement of the issue.

Forgive me if what I wrote in posting the press release sounded arrogant or “in your face” because I was not trying to do that. I was trying to do electronically what I did physically after we won a judgment in the early 90’s against a company that had stolen 15 of our sounds and put them under 21 of their titles. I took a copy of the abstract of judgment around to booths at our largest trade show the following year to give a copy to companies that I thought had the potential to get into the sound business or were already in that type of product.

I offered to listen to any sound they were about to buy from someone to help them try and avoid what we had just accomplished (3 year legal battle to win a $700,000 award). I said that even if it was simply over the phone, I could identify our sounds. To date only a couple of people have taken me up on that.

If you give all of my sounds to someone, why would they ever want to buy my sounds? That sure sounds like I am being deprived of something….doesn’t it?

Why Would Joe’s buddy go out and buy the pirated sound he heard on Joe’s caller if he can simply download it for “free”?

It would be interesting to know how many people's decisions were swayed by the offer of 400 "free" sounds. Doesn't that build value in the decision making process?
 
Excellent post Mr. Stewart!

I am happy to hear that things are working out in your favor. Your post was very informative and I appreciate you posting it.
 
Originally Posted By: dtm6582Originally Posted By: sharkathmi

When someone pirates those sounds Johnny Stewart looses. For every copy that is pirated, Johnny Stewart looses a potential monetary gain. That's why there are copyright laws. The pirating may have been unintentional by the unknowing, or intentional. Who knows?


Hit the nail on the head. POTENTIAL, not actual.

I'm not sure we can compare potential income with actual income here.
The potential income would have been actual income if folks had to purchase the sounds from JS and not from a free down load file.

OK...work with me here.....
Johnny Stewart has them sound cards for sale for $20 each.
They have a bunch of them.
When they are all sold they will earn X amount of income, earning, profit, etc.

Several site have pirated those exact Johnny Stewart sounds.
You can download them from several sites free of charge and you didn't have to give a penny to Johnny Stewart.
Why buy them...they are free.

The sale of those Johnny Stewart sound cards has been reduced substantially because of the free downloads.
That is lost income.
I'm not an accountant but lost income means I didn't make as much money as I could have.
And if the reasons for that loss of income is illegal, then catch and punish the offenders.
Let folks make a living.

In the words of Forrest Gump:
That's all I got to say 'bout that right now.

Y'all have a good one.
Mark
 
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