Don't like how I hunt, huh?

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No offence, but I have never read a story about a PETA movement and read about how they are pointing out that we cannot stick together. Correct me if I am wrong though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

I also do agree that the PETA movement is gaining movement and progressing.



Tell me, why would they point out our lack of unity? That would only be helpful to us. Do you think they would help us out by pointing out one of their most effective tactics?

That would be like calling in coyote's, just to pop up yelling "this is how we get you, better not fall for it again".

Divide and conquer is always an effective tactic in any conflict.
 
All I was saying is that you don't have any real evidence that PETA members are actively reading these forums just to gain an upper hand by knowing that we disagree on certain topics.
The scenario presented is pretty unrealistic in my opinion. Which leads back to my original point. You don't have any real material to give us that says "PETA is gaining the upper hand by convincing hunters that other types of hunting is wrong". I know that the story was made up, but the moral of the story just doesn't make any real, factual, sense to me.
 
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All I was saying is that you don't have any real evidence that PETA members are actively reading these forums just to gain an upper hand by knowing that we disagree on certain topics.
The scenario presented is pretty unrealistic in my opinion. Which leads back to my original point. You don't have any real material to give us that says "PETA is gaining the upper hand by convincing hunters that other types of hunting is wrong". I know that the story was made up, but the moral of the story just doesn't make any real, factual, sense to me.



You'd be suprised who "trolls" through these forums. I've seen a few guys get on here that it's their first post and they post a controversial question. Do you think they are a predator hunter? Maybe but the anti's have an agenda and they'll do anything to reach it.
 
Those against game reserves ,especially in Western states , have little to go on as far as problems from game breeding facilities....there are few there to start with and CWD was started in Colorado from federal breeding /disease research.Some elk , mule deer , whitetail deer there test positive for the disease there now but the populations have not crashed and some are expanding and all are in record , healthy numbers....wouldn't you say. The animals inside fenced areas are more at risk from the wild animals when it comes to disease as all of them are checked and vacinated ,tested, and cared for on a regular basis for any other type of problems. They are also of a , how you say ,better genetic base as far as trophy measurements and if they entered the wild population , it would only benefit from it. Also , the captive animals give the whole world , including you, the benefits of research and disease prevention that would cost huge amount of money from the government to dofor the wild population , at no cost to anyone except the farmer. When you ended this form of agriculture ,you ended jobs ,livelyhoods ,hunting oppertunities , and a form of hunting legal in all other states to what end....???? Hunter against hunter and farmer.....hope you are happy...SM
 
1. I dont need to be "Brought into the light" or "Given an idea". I am not an idiot, I know what PETA stands for and the ways they go about getting what they want.

2. Maybe I just couldn't find it (but would be more than willing to admit I am wrong if you find it) but there wasn't anywhere that said, "Look into hunting forums and see if they are arguing about stuff!" It does tell them to research their enemy (i.e. Us) but I hardly think that qualifies.

3. I think every one in here should be entitled to their opinion without being accused of "Fueling the Antis" Ethics are not the same from person to person and if you don't like something then don't do it. But if it is perfectly legal, you (You, in general, not You, personally NASA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif) have no business of critisizing somebody else's ethics.
 


You'd be suprised who "trolls" through these forums. I've seen a few guys get on here that it's their first post and they post a controversial question. Do you think they are a predator hunter? Maybe but the anti's have an agenda and they'll do anything to reach it.



Yeah Beef, I guess I can agree with that to a certain extent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I can't see much difference in eating a hamburger and killing and eating a pen raised animal. If you buy your burger at McDonalds, then you just paid someone else to do the killing for you. We are all killers and shed blood no matter how we do it and to say that one persons way of doing it is better than someone else's seems kind of silly to me.
 
Spiderman, you either weren't aware of it or not old enough at the time Montana debated game farms. The debate got going here because elk escaped a game farm facility near Philipsburg Montana. They rounded them up thankfully, then tested them for disease. Your wonderfully cared for livestock elk indeed had CWD. Had they escaped and not been caught the FW&Ps along with the WS would have sent in helicopters and federal and state sharp shooters and annihilated every animal in a 50 mile radius. The Anaconda Pintler Wilderness would have been shot out, because of a game farm.

Around a year later a animal from a game farm over by Billings was confirmed with TB. It had escaped along with others that didn't get gathered up. The Sharp shooters descended upon the region and killed every animal that they found. Don't tell us that we have nothing to fear from game farms. That's big time BS. CWD, takes years to show up, the only test for it is conducted on the brain. Tests aren't taken on all animals because of obvious reasons. If you have game farms in your state you playing Russian roulette with you wildlife populations. I can go on and on why game farms suck but your probably a rancher or farmer yourself so I'm wasting my time with you. This isn't hunter against hunter, it's hunters saving and perpetuating their sport for future generations. Without the wildlife to hunt, it's just hiking. You can't claim hunter against hunter, because hunters only hunt fair chase. The rest is slaughtering livestock.
 
There will always 10% of people in any group who are pains in the ars and always have something critical to say. They pride themselves on being the whiner and like to stir things up. We need to spend our time and efforts with the other 90% that want to build and maintain a better reputation for the sportsman. The other 10% are a waste of time arguing with. You wont change their mind.

I swear, some people will disagree with someone just so they can add a digit to their post number.
 
I am a game breeder and proud of it....just 20 years. I do know all of the laws , rules ,info ,history past and present , testing , accountability , ect to raising wildlife behind a fence. The CWD came from elk captive in Colorado to do a study ...not for cwd. They were penned beside sheep with their equivalent of CWD. The disease changed into a variety an elk can be affected by. The elk were sold out to game ranches unaware of this . This is were it started. Where it will end is in the future. All parties involved in wildlife , fenced or other wise , are 100% involved in this . No one wanted this or having to be involved in the rules ,testing and its costs, but we are here committed not spending time pointing fingers but moving ahead with better testing and chances for vaccines for CWD. The CWD does not kill all of the animals that carry it...thank goodness. I live in Iowa and there has never been a case of CWD here even though we has thousands of deer behind fences but we still have to test every deer that dies in our pens and pay for this test. Our deer are used to help with research of this and other diseases.
A much worse disease is EHD...it kills all affected animals quickly . It is carried by the bite of a tiny bug (no-see-ums) if you know this common term and the bug. This disease comes from the lower states and can and will take as much as 70% or more of all deer, fenced or other wise ,only stopped by killing frost of the flies. I bring this up because little or no effort is being placed on this disease and all on CWD which travels much slower and takes fewer of the population. The fenced deer industry is working hard, with their own money , to find vaccines for this disease which will be of much help to the wild population. So , we aren't just a bunch of wild life users....we care deeply about our animals as well as the wild ones. I know of very few people that raise deer that aren't hunters who's love for the animal they raise prompted them to start raising them. The NRA has just came out and endorsed the game breeding/high fenced hunting industry......maybe they are wrong too but I think they made a hard , long , well investigated decision in this matter. Should trout farms be outlawed???? all streams in Iowa that have trout are stocked by the State....is this wrong and fishing for them not real fishing or fair chase???????don't draw so many lines and be more inclusive. Those here against game farms...how many have been to one personally and talked to the owners???? or been on a hunt inside high fences other than UTube???? Do you always make your decisions without first hand knowledge of an issue???? Take the time to find out, first hand . I don't plan to hunt behind fences...not my personal thing....great for others who enjoy it. I also think if all animals behind the fences were females, (I know you can't reproduce without both) but if they were....not too much would be said as much of the opposition comes from envy of the types of animals taken that equal or surpass those seen in a lifetime of hunting....look for the truth of this in your heart....SM
 
I am not here to start arguments with anyone....but rather to educate anyone interested in what IS going on in our world today as far as the wildlife industry. If you do a Google search of the National Deer Farmers [beeep]. , NDFA , you can read all kinds of real info on the industry. South Dakota is also having votes cast to end high fence hunting. Do you see any domino effect here???? I could be the next one losing my buisness ,income ,heritage, and that of my son just stating in. High fence hunting is high fence hunting. Hunting at your pace , one shot kills , ( if your shot draws a drop of blood your money is spent, you either follow up or go home with out or buy another hunt) at least that is the policy with the reserves I know of. Heck , hundreds of thousands of pheasants are raised for hunting reserves , fish ,quail ,ect. Is this "real" hunting???? It is a reserve hunt...simple and fun for those inclined . I hope the negative hunter against hunter/outdoor person stops and we all get on board. If something needs to change or upgrade , then lets do it from within and increase the availabilities and rainbow of outdoor hunting ,shooting ,trapping , and non consumptive use of what we still have. The more people ,and especially those of suburban life styles, we can have pulling triggers and voting if favor of such , the better we will all be.....and yes...if in your state you have a problem getting your favorite past time banned....I, and the organizations I belong to , will be sending you money and help to fight back...no matter how you stand on this issue.... SM
 
Taking game on a farm inside a fence... is it Hunting? Yes

Is it fair chase? No


Should it be banned? No, not IMO.
 
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Taking game on a farm inside a fence... is it Hunting? Yes



Only by definition.

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Should it be banned? No, not IMO.



That my friend is up to each states population to decide, not you.

I knew spiderman was a game farmer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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Spiderman, you either weren't aware of it or not old enough at the time Montana debated game farms. The debate got going here because elk escaped a game farm facility near Philipsburg Montana. They rounded them up thankfully, then tested them for disease. Your wonderfully cared for livestock elk indeed had CWD. Had they escaped and not been caught the FW&Ps along with the WS would have sent in helicopters and federal and state sharp shooters and annihilated every animal in a 50 mile radius. The Anaconda Pintler Wilderness would have been shot out, because of a game farm.
Around a year later a animal from a game farm over by Billings was confirmed with TB. It had escaped along with others that didn't get gathered up. The Sharp shooters descended upon the region and killed every animal that they found. Don't tell us that we have nothing to fear from game farms. That's big time BS. CWD, takes years to show up, the only test for it is conducted on the brain. Tests aren't taken on all animals because of obvious reasons. If you have game farms in your state you playing Russian roulette with you wildlife populations. I can go on and on why game farms suck but your probably a rancher or farmer yourself so I'm wasting my time with you. This isn't hunter against hunter, it's hunters saving and perpetuating their sport for future generations. Without the wildlife to hunt, it's just hiking. You can't claim hunter against hunter, because hunters only hunt fair chase. The rest is slaughtering livestock.



Thank You!
Spider there is all kinds of proof here in Montana showing just the opposite of your claims.The ONLY place we have found CWD is in game farms,after YEARS of testing harveste game.WE didnt need game farms here and when they posed a threat to our way of life we got rid of them,problem solved.BTW,we still test for CWD every year and still havnt seen a single case outside your "well cared for livestock".The HUNTERS in MT stood up and showed exactly how they feel about your livestock operations,you know who was defending them,guys like you who run the operation,NOBODY else.For one Im proud to have been part of the movement that started your "domino effect",we attended the public comment F%G meetings and waited for hours to share our opinion along with hundreds of other hunters from the local area,this was repeated at every meeting they had across the state.The public opinion was 99.9% in favor of doing away with canned hunting operations,that backe up with the evidence that they were bringing CWD into our state along with the multiple cases of game farmers building inaduquate fences that wouldnt hold elk and/or blocke ancient migration routes was enough to seal the deal.Our hunter numbers are on the rise here in MT every year,getting rid of the livestock shoots didnt harm hunting one little bit,it was a great move.Ill bet 95% of you game farm supporters would do a 180 when you found out they might be introducing CWD to your local herds,tell me you wouldnt................BTW IMO if you think game farm shooting is hunting you dont know what hunting really is,its a quest for something very hard to achieve,a challenge that more often than not ends in failure,the most enjoyable failure on this planet.Canned hunts are for those that want to call themselves hunters but dont really want to hunt,they cant handle the possability of failure,they just want a head on the wall to show their buddys.I have memorys of many unsucssesful hunts that would rival any memory of shooting a 400" bull on a game farm,guess I value the hunt more than the trophy,something that isnt in a canned shoot,the hunt.
 
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You have your opinion and I have mine. Game breeders don't "bring " CWD to themselves or anyone else just as any other farmer doesn't buy diseased animals to raise. I just watched a show on the Outdoor Channel with disabled VETS and they weren't hunting out in the mountains , but rather at reserves that offered them a chance to go hunting because everyone isn't as lucky to live where you do or have a body that can take them to places to hunt. One man said it was the first time he felt like a man again since he lost his leg and other parts in the Gulf .I guess if you want to exclude many types of people from hunting , except in your exact fashion, you have succeeded in your state. CWD infected animals cannot be bought or sold so imagining this is going to happen all over the US is not any reason to judge hunting reserves as such. There has never been CWD in Iowa but just the same all breeders have to test every deceased animal on there property for it. For what reason and what end would any game breeder want to harbor such a disease in their herd if it would kill them all or make them unsaleable??? I know you are happy ,Nonya , with how things turned out for you....hope the next hunting outlawed for you won't be your favorite....because you would have been instrumental in having it happen. SM
 
It is well documented that CWD and other diseases are more prevalent in game breeder's / herder's operations because the animals are kept un-naturally close together. The same thing occurs with fish. To deny that these operations pose a risk to wildlife is very naive ... these operations are not part of our "hunting heritage" (they are a threat to it IMO) althougth some of these so called breeders would have you believe otherwise. It's not about trying to limit someone's hunting opportunities or forcing people to hunt a certain way either.... it's about protecting herds so we can continue to hunt them and not have to cull them.

Ask Redfrog, how many deer were shot in Alberta last month (or the month before)to control the CWD outbreak?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

The livehood of a few perhaps naive / greeder breeders vs the enjoyment of so many sportsmen seems like a no-brainer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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You have your opinion and I have mine. Game breeders don't "bring " CWD to themselves or anyone else just as any other farmer doesn't buy diseased animals to raise. I just watched a show on the Outdoor Channel with disabled VETS and they weren't hunting out in the mountains , but rather at reserves that offered them a chance to go hunting because everyone isn't as lucky to live where you do or have a body that can take them to places to hunt. One man said it was the first time he felt like a man again since he lost his leg and other parts in the Gulf .I guess if you want to exclude many types of people from hunting , except in your exact fashion, you have succeeded in your state. CWD infected animals cannot be bought or sold so imagining this is going to happen all over the US is not any reason to judge hunting reserves as such. There has never been CWD in Iowa but just the same all breeders have to test every deceased animal on there property for it. For what reason and what end would any game breeder want to harbor such a disease in their herd if it would kill them all or make them unsaleable??? I know you are happy ,Nonya , with how things turned out for you....hope the next hunting outlawed for you won't be your favorite....because you would have been instrumental in having it happen. SM



Its a proven fact that they brought it into MT,you can deny it all you want but it doesnt change the FACTS,opinion has nothing to do with this tidbit of info you want to deny happened.No brainer indeed,its just the greed of the game farmer that keeps these operations running,they dont give a [beeep] how the wild herds are effected.They bring in disease and fence off the wild herds natural range,there isnt a single posative effect of these operations in a state like MT,I hope every state that surrounds us follows suit.I am Happy with the result,there wont be any hunting outlawed in Montana,its our #1 source of outside income,our hunting opportunitys exand every year,we take care of our resources and hunting is #1.
 
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spiderman,

In Montana we have wild animals for the disabled hunters. The area's that are, give me's, for average abeled bodied hunters are set aside for people that have handicaps. A good friend of mine broke his neck a few years ago, since then he has hunted all over the state on handicap areas, as well as private property that normally doesn't allow average hunters, he kills great animals every year. Much better than me that's for sure. Game farms don't take the place of fair chase, regardless if your handicapped or not. There not necessary for any reason. Ta ta. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
When we voted out the high fence shooting in Montana we did not make it an able bodied only type of thing. The disabled can get a permit from the Fish&Game which enables them to be able to shoot from a vehicle (they're the only ones who can)we also have free tags for terminally ill youth, discount prices for disabilities and combat veterans. We also have various youth hunts etc. All of these are for wild free ranging publicly owned wildlife.

I guess if we did exclude anyone it would be those wanting to shoot what is essentially someones pen raised livestock.
 
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