Don't like how I hunt, huh?

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Well , guys and gals....I think we have spoken our piece here....the game farmers got all of their CWD from a health experiment on elk non related to CWD . The game breeders didn't develop this disease or want it. The elk were sold to various breeders in the US and Canada . This is how it came to be and how it spread and the disease was unknown to all for a period of time. When it was discovered the damage was done and with little or no research on this disease , the handling by most government agencies was quite lacking. Now , any case of it is found in short order....and no ...it can't develop itself by animals in close confinement . You guys have done your thing....to your satisfaction....and I am glad of the opportunities you have for disabled....but again , game breeders aren't just a bunch of greedy people...no more than you are a greedy hunter to stop them from letting people hunt on their private land ...kind of what America is about. And you optimism with expanding hunting ect... all I can say is watch out....Colorado said they would never outlaw trapping there, and they did , and now prairie dog hunting is in trouble. If I am greedy , then it is greedy to feed your family , enjoy hobbies , care for animals , and add to the diversity of life and alternative livestock industry . All that echoes in my ears are the words lazy hunters , don't do it the right way , don't hunt like me....the true essence of the start of this post. If you come to Iowa , I will give you , first hand for once , a chance to see game breeding and how it takes place. My wife and I raise whitetails and so does my son . We are good people and less greedy folks would be hard to find....Painting everyone with the same brush stroke as greedy is a slap in the face but I accept it as I am proud of who I am and what I do . Peace out SM

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Peace...nice livestock BTW
This is a free range game in MT,a land without high fences...
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OMG! I am dying of not surprise. Yet another thread where almighty Nonya is the only person in the world who may have an opinon and surely that opinon must be correct one. Heaven forbid we try to support people who do not hunt like the rest of us.

IN all honesty CWD is not going to change hunting as we know it. It will have a small effect, but it will not the the issue that pushes hunters out of the field. Throughout this thread the only opinon on the matter that limits outdoorsmen access his those who say no fenced hunting. Your thoughts and opinons on game farms are wrong. Yes they can be a vector for disease, but they are not the cause. It is a matter of time before the disease spreads naturally. Even in areas without game farms the disease exist. No one really knows for sure where it started and how long it has been present in wild populations. Over all even in areas where the infection rate is the highest, it is not significantly decrease deer numbers. The worst infection rates have only spiked in the single percents. Most of Colorado where the disease has been the greatest studied is only seeing infection rates below 1%. This is true in areas with or with out game farms. I you are concerned about the disease then create a testing system and quarintine system that is similar to those used by the USDA.

IN the end, some people will always have a better than you attitude. They will only see the world through a very sad pathetic limited view and never have the mental capacity to understand that they are not the only ones who matter.
 
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I don't know why so many people that really hunt think they need to support or stand up for any type of high fence operation. I would love to see them all outlawed or at least viewed with the contempt that they deserve to be viewed with by the hunting community.

If someone wants to raise wild game as livestock to feed a bunch of rich yuppies so be it. But for someone to be lame enough to pay to shoot so called lifestock under the guise of hunting is disgusting.

It would be like Karl Malone (a world renown high fence hunter) buying a championship ring because he wasn't able to win one. It's not the head on the wall thats cool its how you got it there. As a hunter I don't ever want to be confused or lumped into the same group with some numbnut with more money then brains who pays $15,000 to shoot someones pet. Put the work in and earn your trophys. Don't buy them.

I think that all serious hunters need to speak out against fenced lifestock hunting/shooting operations. This divide and conquer arguement is bullsh-- because I was never united with lazy slob hunters that take the easy way to a trophy animal.
 
I see by your post you have a lot of hostility towards hunters you call yuppies ect. Again , have you been to a hunting reserve your self???? And why would an animal taken on a reserve intimidate you ?? The hunters there don't try to confuse others about where it came from and I have heard some talk of categories for high fence trophy scoring. Have you seen pet animals being hunted??? My deer are calm around me but you couldn't get anywhere near them . Even if I wear a different coat or hat they run from me to the other end of the property til I talk to them and they recognize my voice....and my deer are much quieter than most. ...but mine are also intended for breeding and having crazy deer is not any better than having crazy cows or horses to deal with. You live in quite a wild world out west , but you have to realize most of the USA is not set up like that and finding access to any place to hunt is so difficult from the midwest on east , that reserve hunting costs are not too far out of line from what hunters pay for the so called "trespass fees" in many states. Ask the Texas hunters what the have to do and the costs for them to hunt and how they do it....food plots are one tool used to build a healthy wild herd and attract them for hunting. In Iowa, we can't put out any bait,corn,vegetables ,ect of any type to hunt any game species . But many states it is the norm...the whole idea of this thread is to acknowledge others styles , heritages , laws , ect. and not condemn them because they don't happen in your area.....do you see what I am saying????? And sorry to say but the yuppie ,urban people you speak of are the ones that will vote in or out all laws as they will alway outnumber us rural people many times...we have to include then in our sports as much as we can and not try to exclude them as that will turn around and bite us in the behind every time . SM
 
I'm not interested in shooting an animal inside a small fenced area, but I was in South Africa and saw a high fence around some of the ranches I hunted on. So What??? The ranch was 40,000 acres. How big is the farmland you hunt? How high is the fence?
I see hunters with feeders and tree stands that they sit in all day. so what? I also know poeple that hunt over baits for bears. So What?
If you don't like it don't do it. But you may want to check your dime store moral compass, before you start preaching right and wrong to others. Hmmm, isn't that what the ARA do? Try to impose their moral code on us?
There are a whole lot of people that hunt in a lot of different ways and trust me, when your way of hunting becomes the only moral way, you won't be hunting, because your narrow little group of elitist "hunters" will be an easy target for those that think ALL HUNTING is morally reprehensible. Problem is the lazy, morally bankrupt hunters won't be around to support you.

Ladder hunting doesn't mean you use one to get off your high horse.
 
"Ladder hunting doesn't mean you use one to get off your high horse."

Thats almost clever. How long did you sit on that little thought before you found an opportunity like this one to throw it out there? By the way what does ladder hunting mean? Since you told us what it doesn't mean. Is that something you would do at Home Depot?

This is my last post since I'm sure that once the almighty Redfrog has chimed in hundreds of his sheep will have to throw in their two cents. And I'm not about to respond to all of the shrapnel that is about to hit because I think lazy slob hunters do more to damage our sport then the entire anti community combined. So if high fence operations ever come under fire me and my dime store moral compass will be just fine with that.
 
NorthernWY, your post is right on target.

I too, think the divide and conquer thing is BS... I know I don't want to be lumped into the same group as the "hunters" who shoot penned livestock and try to justify it as "hunting."
 
NWY, maybe before you run off you could give us a list of hunting style you approve of....or don't approve of, which ever is shorter.

BTW I read your last post to my sheep and their opinion of your well reasoned argument is .......wait for it.....BAAAAAH!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Everyone including me is entitled to an opinion. Back yours up with some logic, facts or experience. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ladder hunting??? Do a search, or better yet, come to Globe, next year and I'll try to talk MJM into giving another demo. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I got a buddy who does some part-time work for one of the shooter bull elk operations in Southeastern ID. His job is to haul the bulls that are selected by the "hunters" to the fenced enclosure where the actual "hunting" takes place LOL.

My buddy often goes out the elk pasture and photographs the bulls so the owner can e-mail pics to the prospective "hunter" and they pick a bull to their liking or one they can afford. When a bull is selcted my buddy loads the elk onto a trailer and takes it to the enclosure where there are some trees and it looks more natural(you wouldn't want to shoot an elk in a pen with bales of hay and feeders in the background). He then unloads the bull selected and anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours later, the "hunter" and the "guide" show up. Usually within a few minutes, the bull is dead and it gets hauled to the taxidermist. My buddy watched a guy with a muzzleloader shoot a bull as it jumped out of the back of the trailer. Now that's hunting...
 
Lonny, I agree that an elk shot coming out of a stock trailer is not hunting. But that is not how all penned/ high fence hunts are conducted.
As far as shooting an animal in a field with hay bales goes, that happend every day of hunting season around here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif or a stubble grain field.
Do you think the "Hansen" buck was taken after many days hunting the wilderness areas in the rockies? It was taken in Farmland so close to Milo"s house that he didn't need to bring a lunch.
I look out my door and can hunt the same type of terrain.

Maybe it would help if you said wht you consider "high fence" or "penned hunt".
What do you think of hunters using blinds, tree stands , feeders, baits, or hunting in crop land where the animals come to feed daily?

I wouldn't shoot an animal in a penned hunt situation, but that is my choice. There are some who cannot hunt the way I do or choose not to hunt the way I do. As I said so what?
There are soem who use guides, hounds, bird dogs, jet boats, scopes, high tech equipment, ATVs. So What.
Is there a list some where of which methods have been approved? Just because you or I wouldn't hunt a certain way does not make it wrong.
 
I know the Hansen buck was killed in farm country, but that buck had to contend with coyotes, cars, hunters, starvation, disease and a plethora of other things that kill free-ranging wild deer. That buck was born wild, could come and go as it pleased, and died wild. A fenced deer, elk, whatever does not face any of that on these small enclosures. The elk "hunt" I was talking about is on less than 100 acres. The elk have been born and bred in captivity.

What do I consider high-fence or penned hunts? A 25,000 acre-fenced whitetail ranch in Texas is different in my book than a 160 acre deer enclosure in Iowa. When you have a fenced piece of property and take all predators out of the mix except for humans and add feeders it is getting dangerously close to shooting cattle. I have no problem with hunters who use blinds, tree stands, baits or hunt crop lands, because they are hunting wild animals, not pen raised, bucket-fed, steriod induced animals.

Montana and Wyoming have wised up and outlawed penned hunts so obviously somebody doesn't approve.

Unfortunately Idaho hasn't got their act together. The guys spending the big money to shoot tame animals don't buy a license or tags because the animals they shoot are classified as livestock. They are not even contributing to the funds that help support the rest of the states real wildlife that all the rest of the real hunters contribute to. The "hunters" are only lining the pockets of a select few game farms, and unfortunately money is the only reason these penned hunts are allowed to continue.
 
Well just for the record a whitetail lives his whole life in a few square miles, tow sections maybe. He doesn't strike out to see the wild world, just because he can. If he has to travel 200 yds from a bedding area to a crop to feed then he may well live his life in 160 acres.

Do I think this is the same as a deer that cannot get out of an enclosure? Of course not.

"When you have a fenced piece of property and take all predators out of the mix except for humans and add feeders it is getting dangerously close to shooting cattle."

So at what point are they the same as shooting cattle? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Help me out here Lonny. I'm trying to find out where you draw the line. If an animal is conditioned to come to feed, it is ok to kill it from 30 yds. form a permanent heated blind?

Just because a state makes a law outlawing something that someone disapproves of does not make it a good law.
We have recent gun laws in Canada that forbid hunting with an AR15, because some one disapproves. Handgund with a barrel length of less than 4 inches are now prohibited. Another good law? Some one disapproves of handguns completely> When they are outlawed what's next.

I'm not arguing that "penned" hunts are the same as wild hunts. I'm simply saying they fill a need, are legal and may be the only way for some to hunt.

I have hunted in some wild and woolyplaces that others would not consider hunting, but insanity instead /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Again I say so what? Not everyone likes vanilla.

Don't like penned hunts then don't go. But don't go around telling others that it is wrong. It is only wrong for you.

I really don't think you and are very far apart on this, except you are just too stubborn to think that there is any other way to hunt besides yours. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'm not trying to convince you to go on a penned hunt, I'm just saying there is other ways to hunt besides my way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Redfrog, you went to South Africa and got some farmed animals. So what? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The ranches I knew about in South Africa were indeed about 40,000 acres. This area is fenced in smaller sections, they have like 8 different pastures where they have different animals. So you really don't hunt a big 40,000 acre pc. The point is that game farms where indigenous animals live are terrible for the wild ones.
 
RF, Just because a state makes a law that outlaws something like shooting a penned elk or deer doesn't make it a bad law either.

Like I said, the citizens of Montana obviously had a problem with it and realized it wasn't in the best their best interest to allow it to continue.

It is just as much my right to say how much I disagree with shooting penned game as it is your right to say how much you disagree with me. Just showing you there are two sides to every coin.

I think we are actually pretty close on this, but you are too stubborn to see it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
4100 FPS, I'm sure there are areas like that, but not the oes I hunted. They were wide open except for a perimeter fence around the ranch. I didn't get the idea it was anything but a fair chase experience, and trust me I do know what fair chase means. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"It is just as much my right to say how much I disagree with shooting penned game as it is your right to say how much you disagree with me. Just showing you there are two sides to every coin.

You're nearly there Lonny. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif We both agree that the shooting of penned animals is not for us. The only difference is I make that choice for me and you want to make it for everyone. Isn't it everyone's right to decide for themselves. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


It's not me who disagrees with you, it's you who disagrees with me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now I could simply agree with you, but then we would both be wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
So what if you do not uspport it, but in all honesty we should not speak out against. Look at Colorado, the hunters had the same BS ideas that many of you have. They took teh approach of I do not bait, I do not trap, and it is somehting I would not do. Guess what all trapping and baiting and spring bear hunts were all taken away. IN all honesty I do not think that shooting Pdogs is hunting, but guess what I sure in hell defended my right to do so. What idfference does it really make if a person pays to shoot a raised animal or not? If you do not want to call it hunting, then do not. Do not be like the rest of the idiots in the world and tell people they are wrong for doing it. At least even the high fenced hunters have more ideals and will to get out and do something than just buy meat at teh grocery store.

Why ban them? Just because you would not do it? There are many things in this world that I donot do and could not understand others doing, but why the heck should I try and ban it? I do not like to be underwater, but I am not about to ban spearfishing. I wiull not ever skyu dive, but Iwill not tell you you can't.

Do not tell me what I can and can not do.
 
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the term divide and conquer comes to mind...



good point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Quote:
Quote:
the term divide and conquer comes to mind...



good point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



Wrong. If you don't believe in something you don't have to follow it blindly. People are allowed different opinions.
 
I don't have a problem with someone having a different opinion, but when does your opinion become a right to tell me how to hunt?
And how does preaching against hound hunting, prairie dog shooting or any other style of hunting help the larger sport of hunting?
Do you believe that when the antis get one form of hunting stopped they will pack their tents and go home?
Do you think because you don't like some form of hunting that it will be ok when it is lost?

Tell me what is your opinion.
 
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