Don't like how I hunt, huh?

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I'll never hunt in a pen, either, but something to consider:

Fair Chase - this is a concept that only has meaning and significance to hunters. To everybody else you are killing Bambi. Period.

Plant the thought in the anti's mind and allow them to use our own discord against us - that just improves the pavement on the road to the end of our sport.

How many of you fence setters and holier-than-thou types even bothered to respond to the p-dog issue posted here recently? Guess what - if you'd have taken the time to read the ARF's petition you would have seen that they were using our own words against us. Quoting hunters who voiced disapproval for that particular niche of our sport.
I haven't shot a prairie dog in 15 years and probably never will again, but I will support those who do.

The disease issue is certainly a valid concern, but lose the idea that the concept of fair chase is going to buy us much of anything outside of our own ranks. It does not matter. We kill animals. Period.

I suspect that our sport will die from the west to the east, too many bunny huggers out there who will play off the arrogance of those who think they are "IT" and will get a foot in the door in the form of a trapping ban or species protection. Then they'll just kind of put their weight against that door and push it on open.

Some of you guys need to pay attention to which side of the door you're pushing on. If not the right side then at least don't push on the other side.
 
Lots of fair chase hunters hunt high fence enclosures. It is just something that adds to their season and oppertunity.This is a sport we are all passionate about that involes killing an animal. I know many who hunt any way that is legal and they are able to enjoy it. This whole thing stinks of "My way is the only way to hunt" BS. We have all herd bow hunters say it about gun hunters ,spot and stalkers say it about tree stand hunters, or any other meathods like hound hunters,spring coyote hunters, bait hunters, pdog hunters, dove hunters,trophy hunters,trappers ect... If it is legal I support your freedom to do what you want. I personaly will be the last person to tell you what you can or cannot do. I hope everyone hunts the way you enjoy it and that if somebody chooses a different way it dosent ruin your experince.
 
I do not think the general public is the problem it is other hunters.The problem is we gave ourselves the black eye when some of sided with peta and made them stronger.I do not have not and will not hunt a penned critter of any type.I just do not feel I have the right to tell someone what they can do on there own property,that is the problem I have.Everyone is all about telling the other guy how he should or should do things.Peta wants you to stop hunting, you want to stop high fence hunting and so on and so forth.When I hear all this and it makes me sick when you are in lock step with peta.I hope everyone enjoys there way of hunting whether I participate in that type or not.Fight the right fight or you style of hunting will be next.Sometimes I wonder if your a peta member?
 
It is legal and im not telling people how they should get there trophy. I would be fine with them if the word "hunting" was not involved in those businesses. Call them game farm population controlers or something.
 
Why not call it tree stand shooting or bear baiting population control? All hunting does not fit in to a neat catagory. All hunting has different degrees of difficulty. What it seems like Im hearing here is if it is easier or preceived as such then it isnt real hunting. Right back to "Im better because I do it the hard way". What if all hunters that had hunted behind a fence were alienated? It is real easy. Dont like how someone chooses to hunt fine, just dont be part of getting it taken away from those that do.
 
If we all have a group hug and embrace game farms, we could be all singing cou by ya around a camp fire holding our guns in our hands with nothing to hunt but game farms. It doesn't matter if we all stay strong if there's nothing to hunt. I opt to give my allegiance to the animals, because without them we have no sport to protect.

I'll ask Redfrog again. Did Alberta ever have a time when game farms had a detrimental effect upon the wildlife, and caused lost opportunity for fair chase sportsman?
 
The Alberta CWD thing is in the past.....all involed are working and looking ahead...Non of the amimals you have set your allegiance to have a vote in elections so will not be much help in the future problems coming all of our ways. Iowa Whitetail Deer [beeep]. sent $10,000 to South Dakota to fight their vote against high fences and game breeding. Too bad that there is a presidence for the antis to follow. The picture of herds of ill animals , toppling fences , greedy owners, greedy hunters you carry in your mind only exists there.....it is not the reality of the buisness . If you really want to do something possitive , send some money to Colorado or any other state in trouble and under attack from the ARAs instead of beating your drum of stopping a form of hunting. Be possitive , not negative and take the time to get real facts about an issue instead of using worst case senarios as typical of your possition. Again , the NRA has edorsed high fences ....nuf said SM
 
4100fps. I've already said I can't help you. You have to have an open mind to begin to learn something, and unfortunately you don't have one, and don't even realize it. You want me to answer a question that you say you already know the answer to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif Why would I waste my time then?

If you're so concerned about hunting as a sport, why then is there not a single post from you in the whole Colorado prairie dog thread?? Did you even bother to sign the petition?
I have no time for, nor desire to argue pointlessly with you, or anyone else who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Have a great day.
 
I still have seen no good arguements on why tehe high fences should be banned. Just because it is not somehting you would does not mean it should be banned. Again there are many things in the this world I would not do, but I will not stop you from your ability to enjoy them.

I really have seen no proof that game farms have serious negatitive issues on public access or that they really limit hunting. In COlorado, you should check your facts. Even if they fenced ofdf a large portion of the migration route, teh elk have still managed to thrive. Even with the past hard winter, there are still going to be more elk tags availible then people wwanting to buy them. CWD was bound to find its way into all herds at somepoint in time. Maybe the game farms spread up the rate, maybe they did not. It is still not a major cause of mortality.

If you really want to see where backwards thinking will get you look close and hard at Colorado. The same argumant you use were used for the Spring Bear Hunts, They were also used for Bear Baiting and Trapping. The idiot types as you here on the board against fenced hunting caused Colorado to loose a major part of outlife, a lifestyle and the abilityu to keep bear populTions in check. At that time Hunters, justr like you said that baiting was bad. It was not real hunting. They also said that trapping was not something they think highly of, etc. Sound fmailar? You are saying the same thing. I do not do and I would not therefore we must get rid of it.

Grow up put your big boy britches on and realize that you have no more right to tell me how to hunt than I do having the right to tell you how to wear your hair.
 
I see on the Varmint section info about prairie dogs in Montana....sounds like they are after YOU now.....hope it doesn't happen.....karma......SM
 
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If more people use game farms because of the instant success and perceived trophy quality you get from them, then more of them crop up. This is usually on good to great private habitat that our wildlife use either year round or by migration. It then is off limits unless you have the big bucks to pay.

This is NO different than any landowner that leases to other hunters or a landowner that simply posts "NO HUNTING". Not a very strong argument against high fences!

I never have and probably never will hunt a high fence operation, BUT I'm not going to say that if the right opportunity came along that I wouldn't, and I sure as heck will not tell any one else that does or wants to that "it ain't right" or "it ain't really hunting". If it is hunting in thier mind, so be it. That same person might look at me with my bow and think I'm nuts to sit a treestand all day, maybe they don't have the time to do so. Maybe they can afford to pay big bucks to shoot BIG bucks. What ever floats their boat, the world just keeps spingin'!
 
one thing i cant understand is why hunters are attacking other hunters because they dont hunt the same. activist dont fight against each other. they stick together so why cant we. another thing i cant figure out is why people spend so much money and wory so much trying to stop the killing of animals. when the country is killing hundreds of babies every day in abortion clinics. dont get me rong i respect animals but i believe there are more serious things to wory about. maybe we should take some of them animals in alaska and put them in some high fence somewhere so we can get some oil and gas prices will come back down.
 
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when the country is killing hundreds of babies every day in abortion clinics



Good point 22cat. It always amazes me where people's priorities lay. It is, in fact, a federal crime to harm or otherwise destroy Sea Turtle eggs.

This and other issues use to bother me but not anymore. Now I figure if women want an abortion they should go ahead and get one no matter what trimester they are in. I also think that if gay people want to get married it should be there constitutional right to do so. And if people find it necessary to go live among the brown bears in AK to protect them from poachers they should also be encouraged. If my master plan falls together we should be fresh out of liberals in a few short decades. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good hunting.

Q,
 
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4100fps. I've already said I can't help you. You have to have an open mind to begin to learn something, and unfortunately you don't have one, and don't even realize it. You want me to answer a question that you say you already know the answer to. Why would I waste my time then?




In a debate on any issue, the 1st party gives his or her logic backed by facts, the second party comprehends(reads) what was said either agrees or comes back with logic backed by facts to dispute the facts from the first volley. I wanted you to answer the question because it was contradictory to your posts. You've wasted alot of time not posting facts about why game farms aren't a threat to modern hunting.

You sir, never gave facts nor did you read any of mine in the first place. Arrogance isn't appealing. You could stand to learn a thing or two about game farms, but I sence it's about the pot calling the kettle black where that's concerned.

I'll read the praire dog post to show good faith that I'm open minded.
 
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High fences! Low fences! No fences! Tons of fences!!!

I'm getting really tired of spelling fences!!!!
I forgot!!! I tore my Camo pants on a, You guessed, a freaking fence!

I'm so upset! That thirteen striped ground squirrel, thats been teasing me outside of the shop, might be in trouble!! I'm going to KILL him!

Oh yeah, My Western brothers, I think Game farms are great! Never myself have hunted on one.

Really, what's your super big beef anyway! I personally don't like anybody on my mountain! Mom always told me, that I don't like to share! Shame on my old hick azz!

Getting it yet! Come on!! Less people = more uncrowded space!

Let's all take a super big breather! Sigh! And get on to bigger things, like TCOB for everybody.

If we don't stay together we won't play together and I won't have anybody to watch! Cause I'll be on top of my mountain grilling chops!
 
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I still have seen no good arguments on why tehe high fences should be banned. Just because it is not somehting you would does not mean it should be banned. Again there are many things in the this world I would not do, but I will not stop you from your ability to enjoy them.



Here's just a couple of reasons:

1). Genetic contamination of wild animals.
2). Transfer of disease from fenced ungulates. (Its a well know fact that when you confine wild ungulates together in cramped unnatural habitats that stresses trigger disease outbreaks in the fenced animals. Most tests for these diseases aren't certain on elk and deer, and disease like CWD can only be tested for by taking the brain out.
3). Habitat loss. As I stated in earlier posts, migration corridors have been fenced off, winter ranges, (even though private) have been fence for game farms resulting in loss the wildlife, opportunity for general hunters. That doesn't mean hunting on private property, that means that if the animals aren't there you get to hunt them when migrating to areas that they could be hunted on.
4). Watering down of legitimate big game record books.
5). Cost's of administering game farms picked up through hunters dollars through hunting licences.
6). Cost's rounding up escaped farm animals. Costs for inspection of fences. Picked up through State Wildlife Agencies.
7). General public disgust of game farm canned hunts.
8). Makes the theft of public games animals easier, with little documentation.

Hey elks is any of these good enough?
 
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I went hunting in WinnDixie today for, well meat and things.
Now was that fair chase to bring home meat that way?

If high fenced game has problems, then work on correcting those problems.

Why does obtaining meat have to be called hunting?

I like to hunt and I like to eat meat and as I get older I find that I have less tollerance for people that think I should go far into the outback to find either.

There are some bright minds in this forum, others should read and learn.
 
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Here's just a couple of reasons:

1). Genetic contamination of wild animals.
2). Transfer of disease from fenced ungulates. (Its a well know fact that when you confine wild ungulates together in cramped unnatural habitats that stresses trigger disease outbreaks in the fenced animals. Most tests for these diseases aren't certain on elk and deer, and disease like CWD can only be tested for by taking the brain out.
3). Habitat loss. As I stated in earlier posts, migration corridors have been fenced off, winter ranges, (even though private) have been fence for game farms resulting in loss the wildlife, opportunity for general hunters. That doesn't mean hunting on private property, that means that if the animals aren't there you get to hunt them when migrating to areas that they could be hunted on.
4). Watering down of legitimate big game record books.
5). Cost's of administering game farms picked up through hunters dollars through hunting licences.
6). Cost's rounding up escaped farm animals. Costs for inspection of fences. Picked up through State Wildlife Agencies.
7). General public disgust of game farm canned hunts.
8). Makes the theft of public games animals easier, with little documentation.



I'm no expert and I haven't hunted high-fenced game farms but I'll voice an opinion here anyway. The above sounds like the reasoning/justification that the state of Montana used against game farms. Apparently they're sound arguments in Montana. Is it possible that Texas and Montana can have different goals and attitudes towards game farms and that it's OK?

Reasons 1, 2 and 3 above are some that I care about.

Reason #4 is not - I don't care about record books, but that doesn't mean they should be abandoned. Simply make an adjustment to deal with the issues.

Reasons 5 and 6 may be concerns, but I see no reason why costs should come from wildlife agencies if game farm animals are considered livestock. That's a political/administrative policy issue - so change it.

Reason #7 - What's the difference between hunting a game farm and hunting a pheasant farm (which seems to be accepted almost everywhere)? Not much difference in my opinion. However I have hunted two different kinds of pheasant farms. One raised birds and put them out in farmland areas for the hunter where the only cover was fence rows. The other uses washes, cattails, sagebrush, native grasses, russian olives, and a variety of crops left for seed and pheasant cover. Guess which one I hunt?

Not every high-fence/game farm operation is a "canned hunt". I think there's a big difference in hunting a 1 or 2 acre enclosure and hunting a 2000 or 3000 acre enclosure full of thick brush.

Don't like high-fence game farms, then don't hunt there!

Reason 8 - doesn't seem like much of an issue. How you gonna round up a wild elk?

Texas seems to have solved the game farm issue or at least reached an understanding. Montana chose to eliminate them (I think) and the reasons they have that seem valid to me could be solved by not allowing the game farming of their native game, but allowing "exotics", but lets just let Texas take care of the game farms.

I'm sitting on the "fence" here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
4100FPS, you are doing exactaly what non hunters do to us! You are lumping all legitamate game farmers in with every law breaker and dishonest person to ever own an animal. Ever had a non hunter try to put you in the group with "trophy hunters" that leave the meat and take the horns or other poachers? Just like hunters the majority of game farmers follow the regulations set by the state. There are always bad apples and unfortunately they seem to get the press-Theres no news like bad news- especially from a biased media also just like hunters. The people that hunt and own game farms are hunters just like you whos money for guns,ammo, ect goes to the Pittman/Robertson act to support FWS. These are people that go to RMEF,NWTF,SCI,NRA, ect. shows and support with their money habitat, wildlife,and the way of life we love as hunters. As for your reasons:
1&2- are basicaly the same thing and while it is a concern there are rules that govern how opperations are run. Records are kept and ranches are under close scrutiny especially now. It is also the best place for genetic and CWD and other diease reaserch and testing.
3- is almost an non issue. There are few that hold that much land. You want to talk about habitat loss look no further than urban sprawl.
4- there are people that might try to put a ranch animal in B&C or P&Y. They have a witness and story to submitt as well and if they are found out it is thrown out along with all the other animals they might have had in there and they are banned for life.
5&6- Animals bought and sold are administered by state Ag Depts. and if animals escape then they game rancher pays a fine and the cost of recapture or killing.
7- Who cares? Killing an animal is distasteful to the general public high fence or not.
8- Criminals do illegal things. Regardless of what group they claim to belong to. Dont assume that everyone that is a game farmer is an unethical law breaker.
 
High Fences are here to stay and we need them. So what if you dont hunt them, a lot of people do and we need those peoples support. So shut up about them and support your fellow HUNTERS.
 
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