Rounded Up 15 Illegals ZToday

I agree that some of the posts here do show a disturbing degree of ignorance and intolerance about Americans of Mexican descent and some posters apparently can't tell the difference between them and ILLEGAL Mexican border crashers.

Although I agree with most of the points in your post, the following excerpt is exactly what has most of the "good old boys", including me, pissed off.

Originally posted by UphillDoc:
[qb]My father is a first generation American (his mother gave birth to him in this country after crossing the Rio Grande)[/qb]
Click to expand...
I'm sure your family is a real good bunch of folks, however the operative word throughout this thread is ILLEGAL. As in ILLEGAL immigration. And the fact remains, no matter how you rationalize it, your father's citizenship, and indirectly yours too, is the result of a criminal act. Your grandmother entered this country ILLEGALLY. If the laws of this country were being enforced you wouldn't be here and your father wouldn't be here building nukes. Too bad! That's the law, and if your family chooses to ignore that law, what other laws did they break because they felt they got in the way of what they wanted?

Apparently you believe we should allow everybody in the world to walk into this country unregulated on the chance thay might provide a valuable service 25 or 30 years down the road? Or does your affinity for ILLEGAL immigration only apply to Mexicans?

I have no bone to pick with anybody that chooses this country as their home, as long as they play by the rules. And that isn't the case with ILLEGAL immigrants. I've lived in the southwest for a large part of my life, and the flood of ILLEGAL Mexican immigrants is costing this country more than they will ever give back.

The flood of ILLEGAL Mexicans has decimated the desert southwest. It's a dump now. All of it. ILLEGAL Mexicans are bankrupting the hospitals that don't get reimbursed after providing emergency services and delivering their babies that automatically gain citizenship. ILLEGAL Mexicans tear down ranchers fences. ILLEGAL Mexicans start fires and leave them to burn 1,000's of acres of forest and grassland. Land that ranchers either own or lease. I can't go hiking without a sidearm for fear that some ILLEGAL Mexican will hijack my truck so they can get to their job in the apple orchards, after being abandoned by the "coyote" that left them to die in the desert.

BTW, this part of Arizona was purchased from Mexico in 1853 for as part of the Gadston Purchase. So telling me that Mexicans want back what is theirs just ain't gonna wash.

If you don't like the way I feel about the ILLEGAL Mexican immigration debacle, and think I'm a race baiting redneck for expressing myself, well....it's a free country. Ain't that a great thing?

P.S.
Nowhere in the previous 60 or so posts is there a mention of "them Mexicans". The next time you quote the "mob mentality" or the "good old boys", get the facts straight.
 
I'm so impressed with you guys on this thread. Alot of varied opinions, heated debate, and not one ounce of mud slung. A little dirt kicked around, but not too bad.
 
Mike-Even if we dont agree, I respect your right to feel/speak how ever you like. I would like to clarify a few things though. My point was/is that if not for the demand of LEGAL Americans to have cheap labor, the flow of ILLEGALS would slow considerably. Our Government says "we must stop the flow of illegal immigrants to this country" but continues to allow easy access, and benefits to those that decide to make the journey. Which message are the illegals getting? You yourself stated that "they (them Mexicans) wouldn't be coming here if there weren't jobs waiting for them" If Americans truly want to change the immigration problems, they must first change their own way of doing things, and thats not going to happen. We are much to fond of the convienence that ILLEGAL labor provides us. The blame lays squarely on the LEGAL citizens of this country, and stereotyping and race bashing is just a diversion from that FACT.
Now while its true that my Grandmother did break the law to enter the U.S. I suspect that you and the greater percentage of folks that addressed this topic have ancestors that entered this country the same way, maybe just a generation or two farther back. Should those of us that this applies to be less proud of our accomplishments in this country? Should we all renounce our citizenship and return to the countries of our ancestors? I will if you will...HaHa
Our Govt. has seen fit to grant LEGAL citizenship on those born in the U.S. even if their parents were ILLEGAL, as well as granted LEGAL citizenship to those who entered into this country ILLEGALLY, and applied for citizenship at a later date (ie...my Grandmother)
Since your a man with an affinity for doing the "right thing" I suppose you have never broken any of our laws, and always turned in those that did, right? Never sped anywhere in your car, never had a few drinks and got behind the wheel (even as a dumb kid),always turned in those that had right? Never ignored a law that you thought was stupid, unconstitutional, or just a bother right? Im sure you spend your off time, (when not rounding up Mexicans) monitoring your white neighbors for frauds they commit on our Govt.
(welfare, insurance, tax etc..)You lecture the
ablebody Americans standing in the welfare office how they are a blight on this country and should have their citizenship revoked and be deported. You refuse to use/benefit from the cheap labor of the ILLEGALS in this country,right?
As for using quotations on words/phrases, it is not always indicative of a direct quote from this text, but are also used when a slang, or derogatory word/phrase is being used. Ie..."Good ol boys" "Mob Mentality" "them Mexicans" you used quotations on the word "coyote" for example.
Im not an advocate for open borders, but I dont think that trying to lay the blame on ILLEGALS is justified. Ever notice when they round up ILLEGALS its at WORK but they drive right past plenty of LEGAL welfare recipients,
drug addicts, "ghetto rats" and "gangsters" and never give them a second glance for fear of violating their civil rights...Guess which ones I want in my neighborhood?
I know my history well, and my comment about the Mexicans wanting to come home was a "tongue in cheek" referance to those that think "them Mexicans" are gonna take over and want all their land back...HaHa If you think Im a bleeding heart, liberal that thinks everybody is OK, well Im not. Im a conservative, patriotic American thats proud of my Mexican heritage and what my ancestors and I have accomplished since coming to this country. If you dont like that...well its a free country, and in a few more years its gonna be run by "them educated Mexicans" like me...Take care.
 
Oh Mike McDonald there you go again cappin on cops about issues you truly don't know about, "ALL THE FACTS".

Rounding up illegal aliens is not the job of local law enforcement in any state. Simply being in the US illegally will not get the local cops excited. It's a violation of federal law and local goverment is not going to spend their money, manhours picking up illegal aliens just because their walking down the highway and you don't like it.

But let me assure all of you reading this post that the Border Patrol does and outstanding job with what they have to work with. Thousands of illegals are taken back across the border daily. And as we know it, some come right back across.

In San Bernardino County (Largest County In the US) we have more than our share of illegals who committed crimes and our doing time for violations of state laws. The INS has put holds on them and when their done doing our time, then the Feds are going to take their butts back across the river or lock them up in Federal Prison.

One of our jails holds over 800 Federal inmates and most of them are illegals. Many of them are doing up to 10 years in the Federal system for re entrying this Country a second or third time, nothing more. Many drug smugglers, coyotes, etc are locked up. When their done with the Federal time they will be taken back south again.

So just rounding up illegals walkin around is something most local cops don't and won't do. Now take those same 15 guys you mention, catch them breaking into someones house. They get busted for the burglary, we call INS they come out interview them, put INS HOLDS on them. Local judges sentences them to jail for the burglary, when their done, Border Patrol picks them up and deals with them. When I worked the jail, I saw INS people everyday, interviewing illegals and questioning them about their immigration status. Many had holds placed on them. Those folks do their jobs.

Trying to pick up every illegal walking around is like trying to stop everyone from speeding down the highway, it's not going to happen. Get use to it, that issue will never change.

Cops both local and federal are working their butts off right now on many issues and we have to prioritize what we do, and illegals walkin down the road is real low on the list of things to do everyday.

In the city I'm working in right now of 70,000 people, we handled 6,400 calls for service for the month of Jan 2003. Guess what Mike, we did all that with 35 patrol deputies. Folks get upset when they call for help and have to wait cause were all out chasing illegal aliens who are walking down the street. Hopefully you get my point and have a better understanding.

Are for those of you who live in the sticks, you don't have alot of cops on patrol. Which means even if its quiet for the most part, cops aren't going to spend several hours doing paperwork and I mean lots of paperwork, jacking up some illegals walkin down the road. NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

Nothing personal Mike just business. Take care /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif .
 
Dogboy could have not said it any better! I work the road as a patrol deputy and proud of the work I do. There are many nights I dont even get time to stop to grab a burger in a drive through during my shift, much less actually sit down to eat. Most shifts go by just trying to go from call to call and squeeze in paper work when possible.
Even in WI we have illegals working the corporate dairy farms in the area. The closest INS office is in Duluth, MN. Hard to get help 3 hrs away!
Lets see currently we have a "war on illegals", "war on drugs", "fighting to stop domestic abuse", "Be on terrorist alerts", "Stop the drunk drivers on the roadways", and have to "take a bite out of crime" plus handle the calls for the "neighbors dog is crapping in my yard". Where do you want us to start!
Mike McDonald I know you got alot of pats on the back for your "BIG BUST". I dont have a problem with anyone wanting to get involved, if the public would get more involved law enforcement officers could be more effective in our job. I just hope next time you can still be a "HERO" by doing the job of the lazy cops. I hope you just think about what may happen if one of those 15 illegals had a weapon, walked into the local police dept and opened fire out of desperation. Dont say it wont happen, we just lost another officer in the past week to a shooting in Adams Co., WI. I guess he was just another lazy cop not doing his job.
I could go on but what's the use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif .

Huckster
 
Awww c'mon Mike you dont really think that folks telling you the facts and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning is really the reason "this country is going to hell in a handbasket" do you?...LMAO
WE will have to agree to disagree Im afraid, but at least you can count on the "trailer park" crowd to chime in with their approval the next time your busy patting yourself on the back after your next misadventure.
The good news is there are plenty of other countries you can go to when you decide this ones not for you, heck who knows, maybe you can get a ride down to Old Mexico with one of your new found friends. I hear there are plenty of trailers for rent and the cerveza is cheap. Take care.
 
A couple of things I know for sure regarding this issue:

1. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is a national problem that needs immediate attention.

2. A nation that fails to control it's borders is not long for this earth.

3. local, county, and state law enforcement lack the necessary jurisdiction and resources to tackle this issue.

4. At present, the INS has done little more than figuratively putting a band-aid on a severed limb.

5. Despite some claims to the contrary, illegal immigration has never historically exsisted to the extent it does today. And it was certainly not seen as viable an option by potential immigrants as it is today.

That being said, I'll just saunter off to the trailer park and await a good fire roastin' by the "more enlightened" element of PM. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

|Voya con Dios, mi amigos!
 
My dad works for the Wisconsin department of transportation and all he sees anymore is illegal hispanics. He catches about 1 a week on illegal papers and each time he gets a call that jose is back on plane. He does the road test and almsot always their first words are you speak espanol? He says no and dont ever plan on it either. They are offered the writen test in spanish, but when did the word bridge out appear in spanish on the roads? We are bending over backwards for them in the US, and it is wrong and Im getting awefully fricken tired about it to. If they want to live here by god obey the rules or get the hell out!
 
At the base of the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor is this famous poem by Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus."
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightening, and her name
Mother of Exiles...
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Lazarus' poem is a message to all potential immigrants as well as a statement of philosophy. By placing this message on the base of America's most recognizable symbol we establish what our policy should be. America, as previously stated, is a nation founded by and for immigrants. Everyone in America, with the exception of native Americans, are immigrants.

Maybe if we’re full up, we should take down the vacancy sign. Why be hypocritical about it. Don’t send us your huddled masses, let them huddle somewhere else. We got enough tired and poor already, let them sleep in cardboard boxes on someone else’s street. Besides theyll just leave the damned box on the street when their done with it and I’ll have to pick it up.

Hey Mike, it must be hard living such a righteous existence. I hope God continues to bless you and I also hope that you never find yourself in a situation where black and white is not an option.
 
Well CB, I hope you feel better. It's one thing to say "obey the rules or get the hell out!", and yet another to actually make it stick.

I keep seeing people use the word ILLEGAL immigrants. It's true, they are here unlawfully, but there can be no law unless there is enforcement. The INS tries, but...

You can't enforce a law without punishment. What do the UDA's have to fear?? Going back to Mexico? They don't care; they will simply try again, and again...and again.

They've walked miles and miles to get here. Do any of you think they will quit because they get caught and returned to the border?

If the INS locks them up, our tax dollars support them. How much are we willing to pay? Remember, there are thousands of them coming into this country.

We can sit here and insult each other on our views; we can do like Mike did and try to turn them in; we can gripe about the INS or even support what they do. Does any of it help? Very little if at all.

Forget all this complaining about each others views. What are the answers??

I can tell you that Cochise County is a powder keg right now because of all this. The hatred is building on both sides of the issue. Cochise County law enforcement has been concerned about this issue for quite a while. Sooner or later people are going to start shooting and then all hell is going to break loose.

Again, to heck with whether or not they should be here because they are here. What are the answers?? I, for one, don't know. Do you?

DWL
 
If you think this country being overrun by a bunch of foreigners without documents is okay, you're wrong. The views rationalizing it as being okay are beginning to make me sick. YOU all are part of the problem, amigos. If you don't have a backbone, just admit it. I'm tired of hearing all the excuses why things are the way they are.
They are the way they are because we have turned into a country of spineless pansy asses.
You guys sound just like the French. Gutless pukes. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
 
uphilldoc- the puppy is a 5th generation product of "miss piggy" and "hammer"!

Correction: The pup is a 5th gen off of "Miss Piggy" out of Hammer. On the dams side. Previous post looks funny. I will get the pedigree up soon on my web site. I had some Jeep stuff, but he was too hot for what I need.

Darrin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
LOL, Mike if that's your responce to my post, I won't even say anything else. It's a lost cause. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
187-I thought there might be some Hammer in that pup...LOL I had "Comet" in my yard for a while, nice little bitch and full of fire. What are you doing with the dogs that the Jeep stuff would be to hot for? I fool with terriers (Jagds, Fells, Airedales and their crosses) now but nothing ever takes the place of a good ol bulldog. Take care.
 
Huckster- What would have happened if one of those illegal aliens had a weapon? Someone would have possibly been shot. If the border patrol or the police department HAD done their job, Mike would not have had to take action.

UphillDoc- Why do you feel a need to put these labels on people like a Bigot? If you don't realize it, that is exactly what you sound like. "Good Ole Boys" "Trailer Park Crowd" talking about "them Mexicans".

Cry me a river. ALL illegal Mexicans are hardworking people! NONE of them bring illegal drugs to the U.S.A.! NONE of them are running from the law in Mexico! Those poor poor Mexicans, they want a better country but it is so much easier to swim a river than work on social reform in their own country.

Here is an idea. All of the HONEST and HARDWORKING Mexicans can register with the INS. We give each one their own little card with a picture I.D. They can come up for one month and work in our fields or do whatever all of the hardworking illegals do for money. When one month is up they go back to Mexico for a little check in. Five years later when they have EARNED their right into our country they go through the legal process of becoming a citizen.
 
Illegals coming into the country. Nothing new. They have been doing that since we were a country. Even before, depending on your definition of "illegals" and "our country". But the fact remains that's it's now our country, and we have set up laws that our citizens must abide by. Obviously we have something illegal aliens want. We should be proud of that. Want to be an American? Who wouldn't? But to live the American dream means to play by American rules. Don't like the rules? Go somewhere else. As I see it, illegal aliens is a generic term. Some come here wanting to work and gain citizenship. I say, come on in. Some want to exploit the system. I say to that, punishment - quick and severe. I understand the money involved on all fronts. I also understand that many of our own citizens are sucking off the system like a calf at its last drink of mama's milk.

Here's a proposal. For every person we make a citizen, let's send someone back to their country - maybe a drug dealer, killer, rapist, etc. We could empty the prisons and build a good workforce at the same time.

Just a thought.
 
jeffo, UDA's coming into this country is nothing new. What is new is the number of them coming here. I've heard that the INS catches between 15,000 and 20,000 a month in the Tucson area alone.

As far as your last statement, I suppose that turning a criminal back to their own country would seem good to an idealist, but the idea that they would stay there is a fallacy. After all, they found their way here once, right?

For those who say let 'em come in:

I don't mind if they come here to work for a while. I've even shared a few soda's and granola bars with some of them when I was out hunting. I see no reason to hate them for wanting a better life, and I understand that point of view.

However...

When you go out into the desert here, just about anywhere you go you will see backpacks, water bottles, toilet paper, and all sorts of trash littering the landscape. This stuff doesn't go away and the trash scattered about is getting deeper all the time. The UDA's come here to work or maybe to find a better life, but they turn this land into the same kind of eyesore that they come from.

The UDA's only bring with them what they can carry, so how do you suppose they get by? I can tell you; they take what they need from where they can find it. They won't take your T.V. or your microwave, but they'll take your guns, knives, food, clothing, blankets, and even your vehicle if they can get it. Sure, helping them out isn't a bad thing to do, but if you do word passes back along the trail. Soon there will be more and if you're not home they'll likely just take what they want. How would it feel to come home and find your home ransacked by UDA's and much of your stuff missing? Would it change your views? It would for many people.

I also understand a little about the economics of Mexico. There is no middle class there; the people are either rich beyond means, or they are so poor they almost can't survive. The people who are migrating here are not the rich ones. They are used to taking what they need, and they bring those ideals with them here.

I'm not rich by american standards, and what I have I've worked darn hard for. I can tell you that if someone breaks into my home, I don't care if they are american, mexican, or otherwise; they're gonna have a problem if I'm here.

Most of the people I know feel the same way. They don't mind helping out if they can, but they won't be ripped off either if they can stop it.

Like I said, this place is a powder keg waiting to go off. I don't know what the answers are, but it's not as simple as "sending them back home" or "letting them come in".

DWL
 
DWL-I have to agree with much of what you said. I am always torn between the ideals for which this country stands for and the problems that those ideals create.
Freedom of speech is great, until you have to listen to some idiot spout off about something that makes your blood boil.
Freedom of religion is great, until some clown says his God lives on Venus and still gets tax exempt status.
The reason our founders formed this country on those principles was that most of them had come here to escape some type of racism and/or persecution whether it was racial, religious, or economic. I'm sure they didn't envision the abuses of their ideals that have taken place over the last few years. I'm sure they never imagined that someone would burn the flag they fought so hard to create in the name of free speech.

The numbers of illegals are staggering, but that's what usually sets people off. If there were just a couple hundred coming over every month, no one would notice or even care. It was the same when my grandparents came here. Between 1910 & 1920 over 2,000,000 Italians emigrated to the United States. That's over 15,000 a month. And they all landed in New York! How do you think the natives felt about that? And it didn't matter that it was legal or not, it was too many too fast. If you think the Mexicans get crapped on, that's nothin.

I guess my point is this. We live in the most powerful country in the world. We have a very high standard of living as compared to the rest of the world. And we enjoy freedoms that I'm not willing to give up in order to solve the problems associated with those freedoms.

Now alot of you will say that illegal immigration is not a freedom or a right. It's not. But it's one of those slippery slopes that usually end up with me giving up more of MY freedoms in order to address the problem.

Take the war on drugs for example. We know that the only way to stop the supply is to stop the demand. Well that doesn't stop us from spending billions upon billions of dollars fighting a war that can't be won. And you can argue this point till you're blue in the face. As long as some people are willing to pay for something, there will always be someone there willing to provide it. As long as there's a chance at a better life, people are going to take it. Legal or not. So you can bitch about it all you want, but it's like a moth to a flame. He's gonna get burned, but he doesn't care because it beats the hell out of sittin in the dark.
 
Bent Barrel,

You whine because the police and the border patrol was not doing there job. Just because Mike reported 15 "illegals" walking down the street all the officers in the area are supposed to drop everything and come running. Im not sticking up for the rights of the aliens but it seems to me that just because someone is walking down the street in this country doesn't make it illegal. Being mexican alone is not a crime, if it is show me the laws to back it up. If your black you must be a drug dealer then to? Im bohemian, what am I guilty of??
Perhaps we need to hire more LEO's to deal with the problems, then guess what taxes go up and who will be the first to cry about that? All I am saying is dont be so quick to blame the local law enforcement agencies and border patrol for the problems. Law enforcement did not create the problems and with the resources available are doing the best that can be expected.

Huck
 
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