I watched this viedo several times. Lot's of different views. However the thing that caught my eyes is why is their a snowmobile track going around the moose, right where it fell before it was shot. maybe that moose was close to the trail and others ahead of this guy went around. No one knows for sure unless I guess you were their. Just thought it was odd their was already a path going around it.
Snow-mobiler kills attacking MOOSE with his GLOCK!
- Thread starter Jeff Mock
- Start date
Crimson Raptor
New member
I would think the final fatal encounter was avoidable, but like others have said, to be there may change one's perspective.
A good question for those who carry concealed on a daily basis - What could have/would have the rider/shooter have done differently in this situation if he didn't have his CC Glock with him? I bet he doesn't jump off the snowmobile and grab a stick to take on the moose. He probably just drives around. He has a machine that can do 60 mph and apparent routes off the trail and around a large and clumsy animal in deep snow.
I conceal carry every day and even when I hunt, but I don't go out of my way to drive through bad neighborhoods or go to the ATM at 2:00 a.m. in the morning just because I have a defensive weapon on my person.
Drawing a handgun in defense of one's life is a last resort, not a first, in most scenarios.
This was not a human/human encounter, but I think the rider had other options available to him.
His first duty after stopping the "attack" was to finish the job quickly and humanely. If this guy is in the northeast U.S. or Canada, I think he's going to have some 'splaining to do.
A good question for those who carry concealed on a daily basis - What could have/would have the rider/shooter have done differently in this situation if he didn't have his CC Glock with him? I bet he doesn't jump off the snowmobile and grab a stick to take on the moose. He probably just drives around. He has a machine that can do 60 mph and apparent routes off the trail and around a large and clumsy animal in deep snow.
I conceal carry every day and even when I hunt, but I don't go out of my way to drive through bad neighborhoods or go to the ATM at 2:00 a.m. in the morning just because I have a defensive weapon on my person.
Drawing a handgun in defense of one's life is a last resort, not a first, in most scenarios.
This was not a human/human encounter, but I think the rider had other options available to him.
His first duty after stopping the "attack" was to finish the job quickly and humanely. If this guy is in the northeast U.S. or Canada, I think he's going to have some 'splaining to do.
my understanding in the use of deadly force was that if you started the whole thing, you did not then have the right to "finish" it. now that is with people, but the situation is very similar. i am not saying that people are required to retreat from confrontation, but if you pick the fight and then start losing, you cannot then decide you are in fear for your life.
he clearly had other options and failed to defuse the situation. it kind of looks to me like he went out looking for this. the video shows him pulling his gun, but where was it? i would guess that it was inside his coat or somewhere protected from the snow. so he already had his coat open and ready to draw before the video started.
he clearly had other options and failed to defuse the situation. it kind of looks to me like he went out looking for this. the video shows him pulling his gun, but where was it? i would guess that it was inside his coat or somewhere protected from the snow. so he already had his coat open and ready to draw before the video started.
swampwalker
New member
Moose probably got tired of being harassed all day long by idiots on snowmobiles.
norbs
New member
We see moose all the time on snowmobile trails, we approach them slowly while making noise and they move out of the way. If you asked fish & game that's exactly what they would tell you to do. I'm sure after he got done changing his underwear he contacted fish & game and did the right thing. They'll take one look at that video and tell him that he was lucky he had a gun because when a moose decides to attack it is not a pretty at all.
Kizmo
New member
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerMoose probably got tired of being harassed all day long by idiots on snowmobiles.
This.
I agree with others. The guy was in too much of a hurry and should have just stopped and enjoyed the majesty of nature for a moment to let that beautiful animal wander off on its own. I personally don't see the recreational value of burning gas and making a lot of noise for the sake of doing nothing more than burning gas and making a lot of noise, but, hey, to each his own. Down here, the equivalent are the idiot jetskiers.
Having said that, once that monster hit my snowmobile, it would've been toast, right then and there. When I carry my Glock 10mm, I have one in the pipe. If I were in moose country, I'd be toting a .454. Either way, I'd have shot it a long time before he did, and I would have shot it until it was dead. I think it was crappy of him to leave it flopping, but I hope/assume he pulled past it and went to finish it off after cutting off the camera.
This.
I agree with others. The guy was in too much of a hurry and should have just stopped and enjoyed the majesty of nature for a moment to let that beautiful animal wander off on its own. I personally don't see the recreational value of burning gas and making a lot of noise for the sake of doing nothing more than burning gas and making a lot of noise, but, hey, to each his own. Down here, the equivalent are the idiot jetskiers.
Having said that, once that monster hit my snowmobile, it would've been toast, right then and there. When I carry my Glock 10mm, I have one in the pipe. If I were in moose country, I'd be toting a .454. Either way, I'd have shot it a long time before he did, and I would have shot it until it was dead. I think it was crappy of him to leave it flopping, but I hope/assume he pulled past it and went to finish it off after cutting off the camera.
SlickerThanSnot
New member
Originally Posted By: KizmoI personally don't see the recreational value of burning gas and making a lot of noise for the sake of doing nothing more than burning gas and making a lot of noise, but, hey, to each his own. Down here, the equivalent are the idiot jetskiers.
you would not understand unles you done it
you would not understand unles you done it
reb8600
Retired PM Staff
Originally Posted By: KizmoI personally don't see the recreational value of burning gas and making a lot of noise for the sake of doing nothing more than burning gas and making a lot of noise, but, hey, to each his own. Down here, the equivalent are the idiot jetskiers.
Same could be said for just about everything. I believe you shoot trap. What if someone told you they see no reason for that other than to waste gun powder, make noise, poison the ground with lead and litter the ground with broken birds.
Same could be said for just about everything. I believe you shoot trap. What if someone told you they see no reason for that other than to waste gun powder, make noise, poison the ground with lead and litter the ground with broken birds.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Crimson RaptorHis first duty after stopping the "attack" was to finish the job quickly and humanely. Duty? According to what? In a defensive shoot, you must stop pulling the trigger once the threat is over. You are not justified in using lethal force after the threat is over. The shooter stopped shooting when the moose went down, and then he fled to a safe position. Nothing requires him to go back and "finish the job".
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: 6724my understanding in the use of deadly force was that if you started the whole thing, you did not then have the right to "finish" it. That's completely wrong. What planet do you live on? That makes no sense at all, because it's incorrect.
Originally Posted By: 6724now that is with people, but the situation is very similar. i am not saying that people are required to retreat from confrontation, but if you pick the fight and then start losing, you cannot then decide you are in fear for your life.Sure you can! You are wrong. If I pick a verbal argument with a Hells Angel biker, and then he escelates and pulls a knife on me, you're saying too bad I can't defend myself from immenent bodily harm or death with my ccw because I started it with a verbal argumnt? You need to get yourself an edumacation.
Originally Posted By: 6724he clearly had other options and failed to defuse the situation. it kind of looks to me like he went out looking for this. the video shows him pulling his gun, but where was it? i would guess that it was inside his coat or somewhere protected from the snow. so he already had his coat open and ready to draw before the video started. Complete guess on your part. You don't now any of that to be true and of course you're not going to open carry a firearm on a snowmobile, it will get snow all over it. Coats easily lift up, are unzipped, etc.
Originally Posted By: 6724now that is with people, but the situation is very similar. i am not saying that people are required to retreat from confrontation, but if you pick the fight and then start losing, you cannot then decide you are in fear for your life.Sure you can! You are wrong. If I pick a verbal argument with a Hells Angel biker, and then he escelates and pulls a knife on me, you're saying too bad I can't defend myself from immenent bodily harm or death with my ccw because I started it with a verbal argumnt? You need to get yourself an edumacation.
Originally Posted By: 6724he clearly had other options and failed to defuse the situation. it kind of looks to me like he went out looking for this. the video shows him pulling his gun, but where was it? i would guess that it was inside his coat or somewhere protected from the snow. so he already had his coat open and ready to draw before the video started. Complete guess on your part. You don't now any of that to be true and of course you're not going to open carry a firearm on a snowmobile, it will get snow all over it. Coats easily lift up, are unzipped, etc.
Mr. Poppadopalis
New member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: Crimson RaptorHis first duty after stopping the "attack" was to finish the job quickly and humanely. Duty? According to what? In a defensive shoot, you must stop pulling the trigger once the threat is over. You are not justified in using lethal force after the threat is over. The shooter stopped shooting when the moose went down, and then he fled to a safe position. Nothing requires him to go back and "finish the job".
And you DDog probably like to gut shoot your Coyotes and watch them spin a hole into the ground?
It was a MOOSE flailing on the ground after being shot with a hand gun!, not a prairie dog that crawled down his hole after taking a leg off. Maybe the shooter didn't have any rounds left after he emptied his 15 round magazine into the Moose so he couldn't finish it off?
Chances are the Moose is possibly wandering the woods WITHOUT life ending injuries??
***After going back and re-reading DD's comments about where he is so politely correcting everybody it kinda makes me wonder?? Was DD the Shooter??
And you DDog probably like to gut shoot your Coyotes and watch them spin a hole into the ground?
It was a MOOSE flailing on the ground after being shot with a hand gun!, not a prairie dog that crawled down his hole after taking a leg off. Maybe the shooter didn't have any rounds left after he emptied his 15 round magazine into the Moose so he couldn't finish it off?
Chances are the Moose is possibly wandering the woods WITHOUT life ending injuries??
***After going back and re-reading DD's comments about where he is so politely correcting everybody it kinda makes me wonder?? Was DD the Shooter??
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Mr. PoppadopalisAnd you DDog probably like to gut shoot your Coyotes and watch them spin a hole into the ground?
It was a MOOSE flailing on the ground after being shot with a hand gun!, not a prairie dog that crawled down his hole after taking a leg off. Maybe the shooter didn't have any rounds left after he emptied his 15 round magazine into the Moose so he couldn't finish it off?
Chances are the Moose is possibly wandering the woods WITHOUT life ending injuries?? What are you talking about? When I am hunting I dispatch animals quickly and efficiently. What does that have to do with a self defense shoot to preserve one's life?
He emptied a 15 round magazine? Did you watch the same video I did? Can you even count?
It was a MOOSE flailing on the ground after being shot with a hand gun!, not a prairie dog that crawled down his hole after taking a leg off. Maybe the shooter didn't have any rounds left after he emptied his 15 round magazine into the Moose so he couldn't finish it off?
Chances are the Moose is possibly wandering the woods WITHOUT life ending injuries?? What are you talking about? When I am hunting I dispatch animals quickly and efficiently. What does that have to do with a self defense shoot to preserve one's life?
He emptied a 15 round magazine? Did you watch the same video I did? Can you even count?
Mr. Poppadopalis
New member
DDog,
4 pages and I see maybe 3 posts that somewhat agree with your assumption of Self Defense!
You must be a defense attorney?
4 pages and I see maybe 3 posts that somewhat agree with your assumption of Self Defense!
You must be a defense attorney?
GC
Well-known member
Interesting that many would apply the same standard for self defense from a human attacker to an aggressive animal. By that standard you should call for medical assistance for the moose after you have incapacitated it. Or, if you have a lick of common sense you realize the wounded animal is flailing around suffering and needs humanely dispatched ASAP.
Rock Knocker
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: GCInteresting that many would apply the same standard for self defense from a human attacker to an aggressive animal. By that standard you should call for medical assistance for the moose after you have incapacitated it. Or, if you have a lick of common sense you realize the wounded animal is flailing around suffering and needs humanely dispatched ASAP.
I believe that is exactly what I would do also.
But is there any way it could come back at you? Could some animal activist clowns go to court saying you violently executed the animal?
I believe that is exactly what I would do also.
But is there any way it could come back at you? Could some animal activist clowns go to court saying you violently executed the animal?
Mr. Poppadopalis
New member
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerOriginally Posted By: GCInteresting that many would apply the same standard for self defense from a human attacker to an aggressive animal. By that standard you should call for medical assistance for the moose after you have incapacitated it. Or, if you have a lick of common sense you realize the wounded animal is flailing around suffering and needs humanely dispatched ASAP.
I believe that is exactly what I would do also.
But is there any way it could come back at you? Could some animal activist clowns go to court saying you violently executed the animal?
I have shown this video too a few people around the office! They want the guy hanged!
As far a s the Anti's looking at this? I am sure that we have not heard the end of this senseless killing.!
I believe that is exactly what I would do also.
But is there any way it could come back at you? Could some animal activist clowns go to court saying you violently executed the animal?
I have shown this video too a few people around the office! They want the guy hanged!
As far a s the Anti's looking at this? I am sure that we have not heard the end of this senseless killing.!
GC
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerOriginally Posted By: GCInteresting that many would apply the same standard for self defense from a human attacker to an aggressive animal. By that standard you should call for medical assistance for the moose after you have incapacitated it. Or, if you have a lick of common sense you realize the wounded animal is flailing around suffering and needs humanely dispatched ASAP.
I believe that is exactly what I would do also.
But is there any way it could come back at you? Could some animal activist clowns go to court saying you violently executed the animal?
Flip it... Couldn't it be said the reasonable thing to do would be to quickly finish the animals suffering? I kinda feel that if the shooter in the video were charged with a crime and that video was played for an average jury in the court room most jurors would be very put off by the snowmobiler driving around the moose and seemingly ignoring the immediate situation he initiated. I don't know but over the years I have quickly dispatched a bunch of deer struck by vehicles but not once have I considered doing that to a human involved in a vehicle accident. Common sense and law tells us the same rules don't apply across the board.
I believe that is exactly what I would do also.
But is there any way it could come back at you? Could some animal activist clowns go to court saying you violently executed the animal?
Flip it... Couldn't it be said the reasonable thing to do would be to quickly finish the animals suffering? I kinda feel that if the shooter in the video were charged with a crime and that video was played for an average jury in the court room most jurors would be very put off by the snowmobiler driving around the moose and seemingly ignoring the immediate situation he initiated. I don't know but over the years I have quickly dispatched a bunch of deer struck by vehicles but not once have I considered doing that to a human involved in a vehicle accident. Common sense and law tells us the same rules don't apply across the board.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
How do you know he didn't go back and put the moose down? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. What makes you so sure he didn't?
Remember he is only armed with a pistol. That means if he did go back to put the moose down, he would have to get pretty close to it, close enough to intentionally put himself in danger in order to be accurate with a pistol.
The first time he shot it he only shot until the threat was down, and then he fled to safety. Doesn't look like he did it for fun to me. Going back to "finish the job" could be seen as executing the animal out of revenge.
If he did go back (and we have no reason to believe he did not go back) it's no wonder he didn't film it or at least didn't post the video online. It would look bad no matter what.
Remember he is only armed with a pistol. That means if he did go back to put the moose down, he would have to get pretty close to it, close enough to intentionally put himself in danger in order to be accurate with a pistol.
The first time he shot it he only shot until the threat was down, and then he fled to safety. Doesn't look like he did it for fun to me. Going back to "finish the job" could be seen as executing the animal out of revenge.
If he did go back (and we have no reason to believe he did not go back) it's no wonder he didn't film it or at least didn't post the video online. It would look bad no matter what.