whydo you hunt predators?

Originally Posted By: rynokronOriginally Posted By: person123im not a hunter and im wondering why you guys do it.


Turns out I like to kill stuff.

You to? Thank the lord, I thought I was the only one.

If killing coyotes is a sin, atleast I'm going to he!! with a great group of guys.


Chupa
 
It reminds of that scripture" He who is without sin can reload the first bullet." Chupa, you're right! there are some great folk on this site! proud to hang with you all!
 
Originally Posted By: person123please read these links:

coyotes

coyotes and deer



Sir,
I took the time to read, in entirety [sp], both of the studies you linked above.
And, granted, those studies were done considerably closer to our present date in time than the study that I suggested for you to read.

In both of your links, I noticed a multitude of contradictory statements by those doing the research.

You yourself have stated that you are unsure of how population control of coyotes, or even the lack thereof, effects both predator & prey densities...as well as depridation on livestock & such.

That being the case...honestly, I believe that if you will go back and read both of the studies you linked to...you will find your answer.
Most of the studies referenced in your links plainly stated that they were performed as "controlled models", and NOT based on the real world of predator & prey.
As also stated in those referenced studies...it was agreed that real world applications of the "models" were impossible, because of a mirad of other factors in a particular region of the country, compared to other regions of the country.

Now, while NOT "scientific", I would like you to watch the following videos I am linking to:

#1) This coyote resides in an urban area.
It shows clear signs of having the disease "mange" (ie: tufts of loose hair, no hair on tail, ect.).
Also, as you watch the video, the coyote shows honest "stalking/hunting" behavior.
As the coyote populations continue to increase in our cities, (due to NO form of population controls), these types of interactions & attacks are becoming an increasing threat to all forms of domestic pets & people, especially children.


#2) The following video is from the Pinellas County, Florida, Animal Services Dept.
Although Florida & not New York, the information given is the same, & I believe you & those you are trying to educate should watch it.


#3) And the two previous vidoes bring me to this one:

#4) From the Kentucky Dept. Of Fish & Wildlife Resources, a 6-part video series...











Now, a few short videos from livestock producers concerning coyote attacks on livestock:

#1)

#2)

#3)

#4)
 
Man, after reading all these posts the natural predator in me is getting stirred up. I can't wait until October 1st comes so I can do some serious coyote killing!
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I never did understand having a season on coyotes either, unless you are after quality furs. As far as population suppression late winter and early spring are best but IMHO if your hunting in late spring and summer I will just have to remove more to be effective.......I can live with that
 
The reason I hunt anything is one of those things that is personal and something that I keep between myself, the animal, God, and some of the few that I will hunt with; it's my business not yours. That being said, the reason to hunt predators is to cut out the competition. Fewer predators means a heartier herd of prey animals. Now conservation and herd management is not something that predators can practice and they're individual characteristics and habits can be devastating to an ecosystem. Part of the preoblem with wolves is that the packs are still expanding. When a pack establishes itself and its territory it will eventually regulate its population to match its food source availability. Same applies to coyotes but they propogate faster and can exist in a more dense capacity, more packs per area than wolves.

BTW regulation occurs through the ability of the breeding female to shutdown her reproduction system. When there isnt enough food as it is then there is no reason to raise the pack population. This is how packs get assimilated/wipedout by other packs. Some packs just have a better setup thatn others sometimes.
 
Person 123,

I'm probably not the average coyote hunter, but I am one. Frankly, other than birds, I've never hunted anything BUT predators (mainly coyotes). I'm definitely not anti-hunting, I've just never had the desire to hunt anything else. Yet, the first time I observed the birth of a calf in a pasture and a coyote appear almost immediately to kill it, I became a coyote hunter (or at least the desire was born).

IF on the slight chance my female-heart might feel the least tinge of guilt at killing a living creature, it is assuaged by the fact that coyotes are a destructive, non-native species to my area, akin to wild hogs in terms of destruction to agricultural endeavors. (Funny how no one ever questions whether or not hunting wild hogs upsets the ecosystem,... but I digress.)

As for scientific studies on coyote population control:

I recently visited the Joseph W. Jones Ecological Research Center in Georgia. Their honesty on the subject of coyote management studies was refreshing. They basically said that although they have tried, neither they nor anyone else have been able to effectively measure the impact of coyote management on coyote population or the environment.

Their website is less direct, but nonetheless says the same thing. "Some suggest that decreased hunting and trapping pressure on mesomammal predators (hereafter mesopredators) has resulted in increased mesopredator populations and a decline in many prey species. That predators negatively impact many game populations is a widely held belief. However, there is little empirical data to support or refute this idea, (emphasis added) and the few existing studies focus on the response of a single species or are of too short duration to fully understand the long-term effects [of] predator management.

Simply put, all the studies done thus far (even their own) are not conclusive on the subject. So, if one REALLY wants answers, where should one look (now that environmental research has failed to provide a valid result)? As a trial attorney for many years I must resort to logic. I can assure you that, in the courtroom, honest personal observation of an occurrence is all that is required of witness testimony put before a jury. I submit that it is more than adequate in this instance as well. The personal experiences of people who have actually observed coyote behavior and witnessed, first hand, the impact of coyote management on local coyote population as well as livestock survival rates (the latter of which, unlike wildlife population, IS precisely quantifiable from year to year), is actually the highest and best evidence in this case.

My own personal experience, and that of others of which I have read on this forum and elsewhere is: (1)Increased coyote population decreases calf survival rates; (2)Coyote population management, through hunting and trapping, decreases coyote population and improves calf survival rates.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or an environmental research scientist, to extrapolate this result generally to wildlife populations, despite the fact that it is not precisely quantifiable.

In the real world, as opposed to the world of academia, logic must prevail over irrelevant or insufficient data from insignificant sources.


 
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I could also use big fancy words I learned while gettin my masters in engineering to make this moron think Im smart, but at the end of the day he is one thing, one of them. A special one of them, one that never got any attention from mommy and daddy and has to go online, hide under a pen name, to ruffle a bunch of pelts on some rowdy fellas. While he may be one of them, we are all hunters, a GLOBAL family from all races, religions and creeds,from lots of parts of life, rich, poor, tall, short, etc. Its the worlds oldest sport. Kindly leave us alone, we could innundate you with pages of reserch, hours of video and tons of internet forum content. All you are doing is making us want to hunt more, do just one more stand, buy one more gun. The best thing it does is allow US as a whole, to laugh at one more guy who thinks he is amongst a bunch of dumb illertate rednecks. Well rednecks you have found sir, but a man who has a passion for something has a brain to fuel said passion. Thank you for your concern, but it isn't welcome, take it elsewhere and go away.

PS, your parents still hate you.
 
Or, he could be the last vestige of hope from misguided parents, who have required him to provide "evidence" that hunting coyotes is a valid endeavor, and won't hurt the environment, before he will be allowed to do it. (I can so see this happening in certain types of families!)

As for big words, I think you're covered with GLOBAL.
(Doesn't get any bigger than that)!
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I enjoy the chance to blast a critter that is a whole lot harder to fool than a deer. I used to enjoy bird hunting and the coyotes have helped end that pastime. So I guess my simple mind can use that as a justification. Plus I like to kill stuff. My 2 cent contribution to enough info gathered in the last 5 pages to write a very good paper for a college class.
 
Originally Posted By: Ward H.I could also use big fancy words I learned while gettin my masters in engineering to make this moron think Im smart, but at the end of the day he is one thing, one of them. A special one of them, one that never got any attention from mommy and daddy and has to go online, hide under a pen name, to ruffle a bunch of pelts on some rowdy fellas. While he may be one of them, we are all hunters, a GLOBAL family from all races, religions and creeds,from lots of parts of life, rich, poor, tall, short, etc. Its the worlds oldest sport. Kindly leave us alone, we could innundate you with pages of reserch, hours of video and tons of internet forum content. All you are doing is making us want to hunt more, do just one more stand, buy one more gun. The best thing it does is allow US as a whole, to laugh at one more guy who thinks he is amongst a bunch of dumb illertate rednecks. Well rednecks you have found sir, but a man who has a passion for something has a brain to fuel said passion. Thank you for your concern, but it isn't welcome, take it elsewhere and go away.

PS, your parents still hate you.

i never said anyone was dumb, but there seem to be a decent amount of people who hunt coyotes for no reason other than their personal hunches. i hope my post made them learn something new, i definitely did. also, youre an [beeep].
 
thanks to [almost]everyone who posted. i learned a lot from what [most] people had to say. ive come to the conclusion that hunting coyotes is probably a good thing. they are an invasive species in some areas [the complete affect they have on the ecosystem is unknown though], and over populated in many areas. hunting them does have an effect on the local population but they will never be gone unless we nuke the earth. please continue to post in this thread if you have anything to add, im still doing research and anything helps.
 
Just curious 123, but what's your a/s/l?

Is this something you're doing on a personal level?
Or is it an assignment?

What caught your eye about predator hunting?
 
Originally Posted By: person123but there seem to be a decent amount of people who hunt coyotes for no reason other than their personal hunches.

With all due respect, THIS statement is a 'hunch', a mere assumption or personal impression on YOUR PART!
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(However, if you can point to any empirical data or scientific studies to support the statement I would love to read them.)

In all fairness you did say there "seem to be", so let me point out that if you are basing this assumption on the posts in this topic, it is an invalid assumption. Many who answered your posts were obviously offended (as was I initially) by your sudden appearance on this board with an apparent agenda to "educate" us about something on which you were clearly not qualified; they answered accordingly. That does not mean that they "hunt coyotes for no reason other than their personal hunches". It means you were unsuccessful in soliciting helpful answers from those posters due to their perception of your apparent preconceived bias.

A good journalists knows how to ask "unbiased" questions. Sadly, most who pass for 'journalists' these days ask questions like lawyers, not to actually LEARN but rather to solicit sound bites that can be used later to incite. Being able to ask completely unbiased questions requires abandoning all preconceived notions and having an honest desire to truly learn, rather than the desire to EDUCATE, on any level. (Teachers and professors frequently use the 'biased question' tactic to initiate class discussions, but it is not a good technique for acquiring data for valid research.)

Good luck to you.
 
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Originally Posted By: person123thanks to [almost]everyone who posted. i learned a lot from what [most] people had to say. ive come to the conclusion that hunting coyotes is probably a good thing. they are an invasive species in some areas [the complete affect they have on the ecosystem is unknown though], and over populated in many areas. hunting them does have an effect on the local population but they will never be gone unless we nuke the earth. please continue to post in this thread if you have anything to add, im still doing research and anything helps.

It is not the intent of predator hunters to totally eliminate (make extinct) the coyote species.
It has been tried...a century ago. With poisons, traps & other techniques.
The coyote, unlike some other types of animals, are true scavengers, as well as predators.
They will eat almost anything from live animals, to carrion, to watermelons, to grass...in order to survive.
This is one reason that they have moved into the cities & towns of our country.
However, "person123", if hunting or trapping of coyotes were to be banned...as fox hunting is now banned in Britain...it is unlikely, in some areas, that "nature" could keep up with the population control enough to keep additional problems of livestock, & domestic pet predication from becoming overwhelming.

Quote: "The complete effect they have on the ecosystem is unknown though."......

This statement could be stated for almost all animal species, both predator & prey, on this entire planet.
 
I live in Missouri but do 90% of my coyote hunting on Kansas ranch land.
Missouri coyote hunting is closed during turkey season unless using a shotgun. Supposedly this is done to keep a coyote hunter from shooting a camouflaged turkey hunter with a centerfire rifle. Well, DUH !! If you can't tell a coyote from a hunter or are hunting coyotes next to turkey hunters you should be banned from hunting anything. I hunt coyotes year around, weather permitting.
 
Lots of 'info' here; I'm adding my part:

I hunt coyotes because my uncle lost 22 lambs in one month while the alpha dog coyote was teaching the pups how to kill.

Pup 'stock killers' because thats what they become, are clumsy. There were three lambs that had their throats completely torn loose, hanging out that died in three days bleeding to death.

My neighbor owns a LOT of sheep. Those sheep are constantly being attacked by coyotes(when the feds aren't mowing them down in the plane) and we are always helping her to preserve her livlihood.

Some herds of deer and antelope here lose 90+ percent of their fawns to coyotes regularly. We do what we can to keep those coyote numbers down!

My neighbors regularly lose cats to coyotes. A couple have lost dogs. Coyotes actually come into the yard and go after them. One neighbor had the bejeesus scaired out of her when the coyotes were closing in on her and her horse BECAUSE the dog took safety under the horse. Her husband now hunts coyotes with me. He had enough!!

You have to kill 70+ percent of ALL the coyotes in your area for 5+ consecutive years to affect a reduction.

Coyotes migrate, move in/out, fill empty territories regularly. They travel as much as 250 mile one way to do that.

Coyotes that have pups USUALLY have from 1-3 'hangers on' females to help raise the pups until about mid June. They USUALLY disperse then because the Alpha pair doesn't want them around.

And, like many other posters here? I detect an animosity and pre-concieved notion about hunters - of any kind on your part. Here's hoping you(person123) accept some of our 'education' because a whole bunch of your ecologist buddies don't get it and don't want to get it.

Coyotes are predators, as are bears, cougars, raccoons, skunks, fox, mink, weasals, hawks, owls, eagles, etc, etc, etc. Meat eaters and hunters. Coyotes are a drop in the bucket.

Good luck. WE hunt because we are also predators, and, fully understand the minds of other predators.
 
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I,for one,don't think you plan on doing any hunting. I think you're here just to cause hate and discontent. You're like that little kid that just keeps asking why? Or to try and "convert" others to your ways. If you need research and studies to understand hunting...of anything....then you just don't get it. If you don't feel a bit of satisfaction and joy at eliminating a predator....you probably shouldn't be doing it. I feel no sympathy when I kill a coyote. None. Deer, elk? Different story. You say killing coyotes produces more coyotes? SWEET!! More to whack!

My other thought is that you're a regular board member poking sticks by taking all this "research"!!!!
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