Confirmed 1.3 mile Taliban kill w/ Barrett 50 Cal
- Thread starter dawgpound77
- Start date
dawgpound77
New member
You guys seen to forget that the shooter never would have been able to make that shot without an exceptional spotter telling him exactly where to fire the shot to hit the target. They work as a TEAM his spotter gets just enough recog. as the shooter,(in my book anyway). But thanks so much to all the troops over there and Happy New Year to everyone at PM.
Karl in Phoenix
New member
dawgpound22,
You are correct in that assessment of the "Spotter's" credit. It is truly a team effort to make it all happen consistantly.
I know that most of the hard shots I have made (when working in that specialty field) whould have been even more impossible without a trained and experienced Spotter.
Best wishes,
Karl in Phoenix
You are correct in that assessment of the "Spotter's" credit. It is truly a team effort to make it all happen consistantly.
I know that most of the hard shots I have made (when working in that specialty field) whould have been even more impossible without a trained and experienced Spotter.
Best wishes,
Karl in Phoenix
4949shooter
New member
Is there a small amount of luck every time a long range kill is made? Sure there is. But this thread was obviously started to honor one of our military members, who is probably still in the line of fire as we speak safe and sound our our computers.
As far as three seconds being too short of a flight time for Sgt. Hathcock's bullet to fly 2500 yards....yes, I realize the time is off. But under combat conditions, I am sure Sgt. Hathcock didn't time it. This is how he remembered it. But what does it matter about the flight time of a bullet that became a historical shot? Sgt. Hathcock sacrificed greatly in serving his country. Do many of us know he was badly burned while saving fellow Marines from a burning vehicle?
The bottom line is these men put themselves in harm's way in order to fight for our country. This is what is important. Not bullet flight times, effects of the earth's rotation, or "luck."
Over and Out.
4949
As far as three seconds being too short of a flight time for Sgt. Hathcock's bullet to fly 2500 yards....yes, I realize the time is off. But under combat conditions, I am sure Sgt. Hathcock didn't time it. This is how he remembered it. But what does it matter about the flight time of a bullet that became a historical shot? Sgt. Hathcock sacrificed greatly in serving his country. Do many of us know he was badly burned while saving fellow Marines from a burning vehicle?
The bottom line is these men put themselves in harm's way in order to fight for our country. This is what is important. Not bullet flight times, effects of the earth's rotation, or "luck."
Over and Out.
4949
Last edited:
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Go there. Look at 1:30 shows the ammo used.
Starnerd .50 BMG, M8 incdary (spl?),and MARK211
Very bad spelling on this one.
GJ
And what is the point? (besides the fact that you really, REALLY desperately need a spell checker!!!)
I said it is not used as long range sniping ammo, and it isn't.
The M8 (called "Blue tip") was developed in WW2 for use in aircraft against enemy airplane wing gas tanks - contrary to what the lecturer said in the video, it is NOT armor piercing. It contains a contact explosive.
I have about 600 rounds of it, along with API APIT (black, silver, red tip), VLT (Brown tip).
I have a total of ~4,000 rounds of 50BMG, including a few hundred rounds loaded with M48 bullets.
-
Quote:
You backing out cat? Yes it was childish but it was fun as [beeep]!
GJ
HA! - you wish... I do have a family, and I do eat dinner, and I do watch movies.
-
Quote:
Some skill.......... and an awful lotta luck!
Don't let your hearts be troubled gents, Cat took a break to hit the scratching post, he will be back shortly...
HA!... I'mmmmm baaaaaaaaaack /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
-
Quote:
Hey Cat no hard feelings right?
GJ
About what - that you can't make sense out of anything???
Or that you can't spell your own name - gimme a friggin break!
We ain't done yet...
-
OK... for those of you that said I was dissin' the service, go [bleep] your your collective selves - in spades.
When Carlos Hathcock died on Feb 23rd, 1999, a memorial sniper match was set up the following summer to aid the family and honor a hero.
It was a 9 day match and drew sniper teams from all over - including Sweden and Germany. The teams were made up of active and retired snipers and sniper instructors. (The sniper team from California had light desert tan ghillis, and we called them Hollywood "Blonds".. they promptly spray painted their ghillis with paint from Wally World).
The match was overseen by the head sniper instructors from Quantico and Bragg.
I was at the match with my spotter, and we humped our tails.
There were 18 stalks (called creeps) two each day, one in the morning and one in the evening. The entry point was at 1/2 of a mile but the shoot zone was at 150 yds, meaning that you and your spotter had to be closer than 150 yds to "shoot" the "OB" (observer) - and the observer was one of the two top sniper instructors from Bragg and Quantico.
For those of you that don't know what a creep is (go watch the military channel), you have to "creep" up on the OB and shoot him. If he can't see you with 7x bins, then a guy in the field called a "walker" comes over and stands right next to you. If the OB can't see you, then you get a second shot. If the OB still can't see you, you win - if he CAN see you, meaning even the tip of your barrel, you are killed!
We used 308's (without silencers) and standard 308 mil spec blanks and had to fire AT the OB, and hold our firing position and view, while he was looking for you.
All the while, the walker was standing next to you... you had to tell the walker what the OB was doing (hand movements etc), to prove that your were still in shooting position, and had not ducked under a bush.
My spotter and I were the only team not busted on 18 creeps in the 9 days.
My spotter later said, "You haven't lived until you've been on a creep with 'lito" ('lito is me).
We placed first of 44 teams in stalks.
In the shooting, targets were standard "E" and "Dogs" to 900 meters - the 900 meter target was affectionately called "Down Town Brown"
I placed 4th in solo shooting out of 88 shooters. We (my spotter and I) placed 7th as a shooting team (he can't shoot for sheet).
Browse the photo albums.
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/CarlosII.asp
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/pg_competitions.asp#SMTC_1999
I'm in a lot of the pictures (I'm the ugly one).
-
So any of you keyboard cowboys think I disrespect the military, or disrespect snipers, you drop me a line and I'll give you my address.
Come on over and we'll talk about it.
Bring bandaids...
... bring a lot of bandaids.
A lot of you guys are arguing stuff you have absolutely NO knowledge of. It's something you heard or read somewhere, or it's something a guy at the range said... and you were stupid enough to believe it without checking.
And when you get your wee-wee caught in the screen door, you try to do a keyboard two-step to get out of it by draggin' up MORE garbage from the internet - there is no "out of it". You lie, you die. You ARE responsible for what you say!
When you try to get support from the internet, you at the very least, have to know enough to know enough about the subject to know if the resources are true - you guys don't even know enough to understand the garbage you are grabbing off the internet to try to prove your dysfunctional arguments.
-
Most of the folks in this thread are up to their armpits in cow poopoo.
The rest of us know who they are.
Anyone want to keep this up, just keep on "keepin' on".
My bonafides are known by a lot of guys on this site - I don't need to fake it.
.
Go there. Look at 1:30 shows the ammo used.
Starnerd .50 BMG, M8 incdary (spl?),and MARK211
Very bad spelling on this one.
GJ
And what is the point? (besides the fact that you really, REALLY desperately need a spell checker!!!)
I said it is not used as long range sniping ammo, and it isn't.
The M8 (called "Blue tip") was developed in WW2 for use in aircraft against enemy airplane wing gas tanks - contrary to what the lecturer said in the video, it is NOT armor piercing. It contains a contact explosive.
I have about 600 rounds of it, along with API APIT (black, silver, red tip), VLT (Brown tip).
I have a total of ~4,000 rounds of 50BMG, including a few hundred rounds loaded with M48 bullets.
-
Quote:
You backing out cat? Yes it was childish but it was fun as [beeep]!
GJ
HA! - you wish... I do have a family, and I do eat dinner, and I do watch movies.
-
Quote:
Some skill.......... and an awful lotta luck!
Don't let your hearts be troubled gents, Cat took a break to hit the scratching post, he will be back shortly...
HA!... I'mmmmm baaaaaaaaaack /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
-
Quote:
Hey Cat no hard feelings right?
GJ
About what - that you can't make sense out of anything???
Or that you can't spell your own name - gimme a friggin break!
We ain't done yet...
-
OK... for those of you that said I was dissin' the service, go [bleep] your your collective selves - in spades.
When Carlos Hathcock died on Feb 23rd, 1999, a memorial sniper match was set up the following summer to aid the family and honor a hero.
It was a 9 day match and drew sniper teams from all over - including Sweden and Germany. The teams were made up of active and retired snipers and sniper instructors. (The sniper team from California had light desert tan ghillis, and we called them Hollywood "Blonds".. they promptly spray painted their ghillis with paint from Wally World).
The match was overseen by the head sniper instructors from Quantico and Bragg.
I was at the match with my spotter, and we humped our tails.
There were 18 stalks (called creeps) two each day, one in the morning and one in the evening. The entry point was at 1/2 of a mile but the shoot zone was at 150 yds, meaning that you and your spotter had to be closer than 150 yds to "shoot" the "OB" (observer) - and the observer was one of the two top sniper instructors from Bragg and Quantico.
For those of you that don't know what a creep is (go watch the military channel), you have to "creep" up on the OB and shoot him. If he can't see you with 7x bins, then a guy in the field called a "walker" comes over and stands right next to you. If the OB can't see you, then you get a second shot. If the OB still can't see you, you win - if he CAN see you, meaning even the tip of your barrel, you are killed!
We used 308's (without silencers) and standard 308 mil spec blanks and had to fire AT the OB, and hold our firing position and view, while he was looking for you.
All the while, the walker was standing next to you... you had to tell the walker what the OB was doing (hand movements etc), to prove that your were still in shooting position, and had not ducked under a bush.
My spotter and I were the only team not busted on 18 creeps in the 9 days.
My spotter later said, "You haven't lived until you've been on a creep with 'lito" ('lito is me).
We placed first of 44 teams in stalks.
In the shooting, targets were standard "E" and "Dogs" to 900 meters - the 900 meter target was affectionately called "Down Town Brown"
I placed 4th in solo shooting out of 88 shooters. We (my spotter and I) placed 7th as a shooting team (he can't shoot for sheet).
Browse the photo albums.
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/CarlosII.asp
http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/pg_competitions.asp#SMTC_1999
I'm in a lot of the pictures (I'm the ugly one).
-
So any of you keyboard cowboys think I disrespect the military, or disrespect snipers, you drop me a line and I'll give you my address.
Come on over and we'll talk about it.
Bring bandaids...
... bring a lot of bandaids.
A lot of you guys are arguing stuff you have absolutely NO knowledge of. It's something you heard or read somewhere, or it's something a guy at the range said... and you were stupid enough to believe it without checking.
And when you get your wee-wee caught in the screen door, you try to do a keyboard two-step to get out of it by draggin' up MORE garbage from the internet - there is no "out of it". You lie, you die. You ARE responsible for what you say!
When you try to get support from the internet, you at the very least, have to know enough to know enough about the subject to know if the resources are true - you guys don't even know enough to understand the garbage you are grabbing off the internet to try to prove your dysfunctional arguments.
-
Most of the folks in this thread are up to their armpits in cow poopoo.
The rest of us know who they are.
Anyone want to keep this up, just keep on "keepin' on".
My bonafides are known by a lot of guys on this site - I don't need to fake it.
.
4949shooter
New member
Quote:
Edited upon request.
4949
Edited upon request.
4949
Last edited:
Predburner
New member
Sometimes you create your own luck.....
Karl in Phoenix
New member
Hey Cat,
Your recent post about your stalks brought back (un)happy memories of my months at Quantaco in 1979 (Marine Corps Scout/Sniper Instructor School).
Hard training, for sure. Stalks are not at all easy. Too many people think it is all shooting that makes a sniper/spotter team. Field skills will keep you alive, "out there".
Thanks for your informative post.
Happy New Year
Karl in Phoenix
Your recent post about your stalks brought back (un)happy memories of my months at Quantaco in 1979 (Marine Corps Scout/Sniper Instructor School).
Hard training, for sure. Stalks are not at all easy. Too many people think it is all shooting that makes a sniper/spotter team. Field skills will keep you alive, "out there".
Thanks for your informative post.
Happy New Year
Karl in Phoenix
As far as I have found, the longest recorded sniper kill was made March 2002 in eastern Afghanistan, by Cpl. Robert Furlong using a McMillan Tac-50. According to the Vector provided by his spotter, the Taliban he killed was 2,430 m away - 1.454 miles. I do not know what type of ammunition/bullet was used. In an article I saw, Furlong said at that distance his target was no more than a shape as he could not distinguish it as a human target. The target was a Taliban mortar posisition, and the target was the man feeding mortars into the tube. With the help of his spotter, Furlong (a Canadian soldier) he made the kill with his 3rd shot. That makes it the longest confirmed kill, but not a one shot kill (which I think goes to the American soldier referenced at the start of this thread). The modern .50 sniper rifle is certainly an effective weapon!
God Bless all our soldiers - American and Canadian - who fight oversees to protect the safety of our great countries. Never forget the sacrifices made by those men and women - and their families - and may they all return home safely to a hero's welcome.
God Bless all our soldiers - American and Canadian - who fight oversees to protect the safety of our great countries. Never forget the sacrifices made by those men and women - and their families - and may they all return home safely to a hero's welcome.
RePete
New member
Quote:
My bonafides are know by a lot of guys on this site - I don't need to fake it.
Hey Cat
Did you mean """ My bonafides are KNOWN by alot of guys on this site"?
Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.
Now don't go drown your sorrows by getting jacked up on catnip just because you misspelled a word. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It just shows that you're human.
Well Sorta.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Carry on
My bonafides are know by a lot of guys on this site - I don't need to fake it.
Hey Cat
Did you mean """ My bonafides are KNOWN by alot of guys on this site"?
Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.
Now don't go drown your sorrows by getting jacked up on catnip just because you misspelled a word. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It just shows that you're human.
Well Sorta.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Carry on
CrazyHorse66
Active member
I have no doubt it took skill AND luck to make the shot. I am sure the shooter would agree with that, also.
That being said, I wish all our service members "Good Luck" in '09! I am confident that they have the skillset.
That being said, I wish all our service members "Good Luck" in '09! I am confident that they have the skillset.
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
"... It just shows that you're human.
Well Sorta.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Carry on
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
My first out loud laugh of the day.
Happy New Year to all you mugs!
Don't D&D /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Come back tomorrow in one piece
.
"... It just shows that you're human.
Well Sorta.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Carry on
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
My first out loud laugh of the day.
Happy New Year to all you mugs!
Don't D&D /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Come back tomorrow in one piece
.
GJ2nd, I read your post and smiled at this.
Quote:
Come on Cat think. You ever look at plain flight patterns?
Their curved. If your in the right place yes it will change.
GJ
Yes, long range aircraft flight paths are "curved" it is known as flying the great circle route, it has essentially NOTHING to do with the earth's rotation. Ships use the great circle navigation as well and after many Navy deployments to the Mediterranean, I can assure you that earths rotation isn't calculated in it.
Earth rotation for the time of flight of a .50BMG could be calculated but it would be incredibly tiny.
Earth rotation IS taken into account for ICBMs and Trident missiles. Over a 30-45 min flight and their need for extreme accuracy, it must be factored in. I worked in that world for a number of years.
By the way GJ2nd, you having a fight with Catshooter is about as level a playing field as a 3yr old girl going up against an experienced SEAL. You're NOT winning. Don
Quote:
Come on Cat think. You ever look at plain flight patterns?
Their curved. If your in the right place yes it will change.
GJ
Yes, long range aircraft flight paths are "curved" it is known as flying the great circle route, it has essentially NOTHING to do with the earth's rotation. Ships use the great circle navigation as well and after many Navy deployments to the Mediterranean, I can assure you that earths rotation isn't calculated in it.
Earth rotation for the time of flight of a .50BMG could be calculated but it would be incredibly tiny.
Earth rotation IS taken into account for ICBMs and Trident missiles. Over a 30-45 min flight and their need for extreme accuracy, it must be factored in. I worked in that world for a number of years.
By the way GJ2nd, you having a fight with Catshooter is about as level a playing field as a 3yr old girl going up against an experienced SEAL. You're NOT winning. Don
Last edited:
4949shooter
New member
Quote:
The bottom line is these men put themselves in harm's way in order to fight for our country. This is what is important. Not bullet flight times, effects of the earth's rotation, or "luck."
4949
FWIW.
The above is my post. I stand by it.
Happy New Year to All.
4949
The bottom line is these men put themselves in harm's way in order to fight for our country. This is what is important. Not bullet flight times, effects of the earth's rotation, or "luck."
4949
FWIW.
The above is my post. I stand by it.
Happy New Year to All.
4949
steve garrett
Well-known member
I love getting catshooter fired up, I think he pretty much hogtied everyone else. catshooter just sounds good he don't know nouttin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
CrazyHorse66
Active member
Quote:
I love getting catshooter fired up, I think he pretty much hogtied everyone else.
I love watching CS getting fired up. Highly entertaining. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, (or bandaids) to get involved! I remember when I was young. I knew EVERYTHING!
I love getting catshooter fired up, I think he pretty much hogtied everyone else.
I love watching CS getting fired up. Highly entertaining. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, (or bandaids) to get involved! I remember when I was young. I knew EVERYTHING!
Fast Ed
New member
O.K. I ran some number using Pointblank as a ballistics calculator. Time of flight for a 750 grain Hornady A-Max (the only bullet I have fast access to info on) over 2500 yards is about 4.25 seconds. I had to use three calculations because PointBlank only goes out to 1000 yards. I checked 1st 1000 at 2800 fps per Hornady manual, 2nd 1000 at the 1000 yard velocity from the 1st 1000 and the last 500 using the 1000 yard velocity from the 2nd 1000. Total 10 mph at 90 degree wind deflection came out to be just over 100 inches, or 8 1/2 feet.
Now try to follow. If I am firing directly across the equator from south to north, 1250 yards south of the line to a target 1250 yards north of the line, my bullet travels 4.25 seconds before hitting anything. In 4.25 seconds, the earth, rotating at 1037 mph at the equator, (24,901 miles/24 hours) or about 1521 fps, will be about 6,467 feet farther around than when the shot was fired, or 1.22 miles. The bullet would be that far off WITHOUT WIND OR OTHER EXTERNAL FACTORS as the bullet is no longer affected by the earth's rotation while in the air. HOWEVER, the "wind" is about 1521 fps in the opposite direction, give or take the relative wind speed. I don't have a program to calculate the wind drift of a .50 bmg at 2500 yards in a 1037 mph wind or the effects of the east-to-west velocity of the gun/bullet mechanism, but I would have to guess that it is somewhere close to the 6,467 feet that the earth rotates while the bullet is in flight. If not, we would have to do a heck of a lot more work shooting at shorter distances, too.
The curvature of the earth would have no effect because you are dealing with line-of-sight through the scope which doesn't care how the earth curves. Whether the earth curves up (mountain) or down (valley) the shooter doesn't care as long as he knows the relative elevation difference between him and the target. Since I am making this up, I have decided that the shooter and the target are at the same height above sea level, and since we can see the target, the curve doesn't matter. Range is determined straight line, not curve-of-the-earth. So as long as the scope doesn't bend the light around the earth's curve, it doesn't matter to the hold-over either.
Someone else can do the calculations for shooting east to west. Don't forget doppler shift and relativity.
I am not a long range shooter. My experience stops at 600 yards as I shoot High Power with an AR, not bad guys with a .50 BMG. I do like to think about stuff and ponder the implications not ordinarily considered.
Fast Ed
Now try to follow. If I am firing directly across the equator from south to north, 1250 yards south of the line to a target 1250 yards north of the line, my bullet travels 4.25 seconds before hitting anything. In 4.25 seconds, the earth, rotating at 1037 mph at the equator, (24,901 miles/24 hours) or about 1521 fps, will be about 6,467 feet farther around than when the shot was fired, or 1.22 miles. The bullet would be that far off WITHOUT WIND OR OTHER EXTERNAL FACTORS as the bullet is no longer affected by the earth's rotation while in the air. HOWEVER, the "wind" is about 1521 fps in the opposite direction, give or take the relative wind speed. I don't have a program to calculate the wind drift of a .50 bmg at 2500 yards in a 1037 mph wind or the effects of the east-to-west velocity of the gun/bullet mechanism, but I would have to guess that it is somewhere close to the 6,467 feet that the earth rotates while the bullet is in flight. If not, we would have to do a heck of a lot more work shooting at shorter distances, too.
The curvature of the earth would have no effect because you are dealing with line-of-sight through the scope which doesn't care how the earth curves. Whether the earth curves up (mountain) or down (valley) the shooter doesn't care as long as he knows the relative elevation difference between him and the target. Since I am making this up, I have decided that the shooter and the target are at the same height above sea level, and since we can see the target, the curve doesn't matter. Range is determined straight line, not curve-of-the-earth. So as long as the scope doesn't bend the light around the earth's curve, it doesn't matter to the hold-over either.
Someone else can do the calculations for shooting east to west. Don't forget doppler shift and relativity.
I am not a long range shooter. My experience stops at 600 yards as I shoot High Power with an AR, not bad guys with a .50 BMG. I do like to think about stuff and ponder the implications not ordinarily considered.
Fast Ed