Gunner at night when things go wrong. (VIDEO)
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daddyflea
Active member
Here is my thoughts. As much as I hunt, I could never keep a Coyote Decoy dog or Catch Dog either. I am a Policeman and I am in charge of Animal Control. Saying that lets you know that I have had a lot of training. Coyotes in this area almost always have Mange. A Dog that has took on a Coyote would never be allowed in my Home nor any where around any of my Animals or Children. In case you get me wrong most Dogs such as Gunner are very socialized and know what is expected of them. I am willing to bet Gunner is very tame around people as well as other animals. The problem is all the disease that Coyotes carry and are exposed to. Mange is bad enough but the Internal Parasites added to the risk of Rabies along with the Ticks makes a Coyote a very high Health risk. There is no cure for Rabies period. Once you get Rabies you die. Anyone including myself (I have had inoculations to make me immune to Rabies) must receive shots as soon as possible after being exposed or bitten by a Coyote, Bat, Fox, Raccoon, or Skunk. Although these are not nearly as painful as in the past, they do affect you by causing a very weary effect. Someone such as Tony that hunts all the time might have a very good use for such a Dog, but the average Hunter should be very cautious about keeping a Dog for this purpose. In Tony's case I would have never exposed myself to getting bit by the Coyote. I would have shot him a second time. In Tony's defense with Gunner there, a second shot would have wrecked Gunner's ears. Just my thoughts from someone who hunted Coons with Hounds for years and we never shot one. We let the Dogs kill them for training. That was in my younger years.
Big10gauge
New member
Tony, The only thing I see bad about your video is that you broke your favorite stick. Keep the videos coming. By the way Ax handles don't break
Originally Posted By: nmleonWell I for one have a MAJOR problem with it... Come on Tony, you're not really seriously suggesting, a PECAN BRANCH, presumably as a replacement for a PECAN BRANCH???
You are a worker of wood, a builder of exemplary game calls, a craftsman, why not a blackthorn Irish/Scot shillelagh or kebbie, or if you insist on leaving family tradition for efficiency, a lignum vitae knobkerry?
I mean really man, what are/were you thinking? Live up to your class.
Ha, if Tony is after a whacking stick let me fetch a chunk of Hedge from one of many fence rows around here. Just give me the preferred length Tony.
You are a worker of wood, a builder of exemplary game calls, a craftsman, why not a blackthorn Irish/Scot shillelagh or kebbie, or if you insist on leaving family tradition for efficiency, a lignum vitae knobkerry?
I mean really man, what are/were you thinking? Live up to your class.
harris1980
New member
Awesome video, lokked like loads of fun.
As always Tony your pictures are some of the best I have ever seen and the video's are always educational to me as a hunter. I see nothing wrong with anything on the video and keep them comming and pet Gunner for me because he did good. I can't help to notice there are a lot of personality conflicts on here anymore meaning all the forumns. Keep posting pics and videos because I love them.
emeraldterriers1
New member
Originally Posted By: daddyfleaHere is my thoughts. As much as I hunt, I could never keep a Coyote Decoy dog or Catch Dog either. I am a Policeman and I am in charge of Animal Control. Saying that lets you know that I have had a lot of training. Coyotes in this area almost always have Mange. A Dog that has took on a Coyote would never be allowed in my Home nor any where around any of my Animals or Children. In case you get me wrong most Dogs such as Gunner are very socialized and know what is expected of them. I am willing to bet Gunner is very tame around people as well as other animals. The problem is all the disease that Coyotes carry and are exposed to. Mange is bad enough but the Internal Parasites added to the risk of Rabies along with the Ticks makes a Coyote a very high Health risk. There is no cure for Rabies period. Once you get Rabies you die. Anyone including myself (I have had inoculations to make me immune to Rabies) must receive shots as soon as possible after being exposed or bitten by a Coyote, Bat, Fox, Raccoon, or Skunk. Although these are not nearly as painful as in the past, they do affect you by causing a very weary effect. Someone such as Tony that hunts all the time might have a very good use for such a Dog, but the average Hunter should be very cautious about keeping a Dog for this purpose. In Tony's case I would have never exposed myself to getting bit by the Coyote. I would have shot him a second time. In Tony's defense with Gunner there, a second shot would have wrecked Gunner's ears. Just my thoughts from someone who hunted Coons with Hounds for years and we never shot one. We let the Dogs kill them for training. That was in my younger years.
to set the record straight,(tony chime in if you want) my dogs and i'm sure tony's are inoculated against such parasites. they are hunting dogs not wild animals.racoons are very dirty critters and that being said we take upwards of 150+ a yr with our terriers.been do'in this a long time and have never had a incident yet. we have also taken mangy coyotes with these same dogs.... nothing.
to set the record straight,(tony chime in if you want) my dogs and i'm sure tony's are inoculated against such parasites. they are hunting dogs not wild animals.racoons are very dirty critters and that being said we take upwards of 150+ a yr with our terriers.been do'in this a long time and have never had a incident yet. we have also taken mangy coyotes with these same dogs.... nothing.
KAG
New member
I guess for me after looking at it a couple of times I see what happened. For me, while not enamoured with it, I see the training and skill the dog has. I know it takes time with dedication to get a finished product like that from an animal. While I would have worded it far differently, I also recognize for the guy that originally objected that at times its difficult when everyone is cheering to be the lone dissenter.
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I definitely wouldn't risk taking another shot with my dog that close. Your just asking for trouble when the dogs that close and its night time. I don't see anything wrong with the video, everyone hear knows bad shots happen from time to time, we do our best to provide a quick kill, sometimes its not the prettiest but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.....
good video Tony.
good video Tony.
Let's just call him a fur dog and end all this. Guys that know me know I love hunting fur with dogs. Terriers and Mtn. Curs to be exact. Hunting with either of these types of dogs can be very, very fluid. Things spiral out of control very quick and there is really not much you can do about it. If you have never been witness to it you have no idea. It is really not for everyone and that's fine.
Ideally, I would like every coyote that my dogs interact with to be the tradtional decoy exp. like a yo-yo back and forth until I decide to take the shot and then it's dead, but in reality that just isn't going to happen. I expect my dogs to get out and grab on to a wounded animal that bolts. That way I can recover and dispatch and move on.
As for posting a video like this, That's Tony's choice. It shows that sometimes things don't work out. The world of fur dogs is not all rainbows and lollipops. It can and does get extremely brutal. Both for the target animal and for the dogs. It's what they were bred for and ALL they want to do.
If you take 100's of coyotes a year with dogs, decoy or other types you are going to see a variation of this. It is reality.
Decoy dog? I highly doubt that the one video Tony posted sums up the dogs entire life and hunting style. It was just one moment in time on one coyote.
We should just be thankful that Tony goes out of his way to post things that are not the norm. I know there is a bunch of times I've thought of posting dog work pics, or denning pics and have decided not too and not deal with all the crap that comes along with things that most would consider outside of the norm.
Just my opinion and it's probably worth what you paid for it.
Tim
Ideally, I would like every coyote that my dogs interact with to be the tradtional decoy exp. like a yo-yo back and forth until I decide to take the shot and then it's dead, but in reality that just isn't going to happen. I expect my dogs to get out and grab on to a wounded animal that bolts. That way I can recover and dispatch and move on.
As for posting a video like this, That's Tony's choice. It shows that sometimes things don't work out. The world of fur dogs is not all rainbows and lollipops. It can and does get extremely brutal. Both for the target animal and for the dogs. It's what they were bred for and ALL they want to do.
If you take 100's of coyotes a year with dogs, decoy or other types you are going to see a variation of this. It is reality.
Decoy dog? I highly doubt that the one video Tony posted sums up the dogs entire life and hunting style. It was just one moment in time on one coyote.
We should just be thankful that Tony goes out of his way to post things that are not the norm. I know there is a bunch of times I've thought of posting dog work pics, or denning pics and have decided not too and not deal with all the crap that comes along with things that most would consider outside of the norm.
Just my opinion and it's probably worth what you paid for it.
Tim
CrazyHorse66
Active member
All's well that ends well.
I would recomend Bois D'Arc over pecan.
There's nothing wrong with that video. Let the bedwetters cry themselves to sleep.
I would recomend Bois D'Arc over pecan.
There's nothing wrong with that video. Let the bedwetters cry themselves to sleep.
Brandon Sneed
Active member
Originally Posted By: yfzduner450Originally Posted By: cityslickerOriginally Posted By: yfzduner450I'm not really impressed by this video, the dog work wasn't impressive and showed nothing. Any mutt can jump outta a rig and bark at a coyote.
Then go get you a mutt and a camera and show us how easy it is....
I would wack my dog in the head if it jump out without command.
Since you said this and then walked away from the "argument" that you caused, I'll inform you and others that have the same attitude:
The command was the gun shot that did not immediately kill the intended target. As you probably cannot tell, the beep is not AUDIBLE to your human ear. Therefore, you wouldn't even know the command if it slapped you across the face.
Training dogs to do something like this is obviously a costly endeavor, both in time and energy... and mistakes are even greater. Like another member here said: It's time you just take a look at it from behind the line, instead of using your bias to make your "judgment" upon Tony or Gunner.
Wacking your "trained" dog if he jumped without command... then your commands are not effective, nor is your dogmanship. And I definitely agree with CitySlicker that if it was so easy that a mutt could jump out of a rig and bark at a coyote, tell that to my jack russel whom will not even kill a cat... but she'll bay her like nobody's business! Not all dogs are made to kill animals of prey or competing predators.
We have domesticated these animals from their natural instincts, and it is our job to train them to do what we want them to do. Gunner has shown that he is trained to bay, kill or decoy... and all videos that I've seen have shown with 98% accuracy, he does his job as commanded.
Thanks again Tony for posting the video... let's get out there and tag more coyotes... with one shot kills in mind, but peace of mind knowing that some shoot with decoy dogs capable of killing an animal not humanely shot initially.
Then go get you a mutt and a camera and show us how easy it is....
I would wack my dog in the head if it jump out without command.
Since you said this and then walked away from the "argument" that you caused, I'll inform you and others that have the same attitude:
The command was the gun shot that did not immediately kill the intended target. As you probably cannot tell, the beep is not AUDIBLE to your human ear. Therefore, you wouldn't even know the command if it slapped you across the face.
Training dogs to do something like this is obviously a costly endeavor, both in time and energy... and mistakes are even greater. Like another member here said: It's time you just take a look at it from behind the line, instead of using your bias to make your "judgment" upon Tony or Gunner.
Wacking your "trained" dog if he jumped without command... then your commands are not effective, nor is your dogmanship. And I definitely agree with CitySlicker that if it was so easy that a mutt could jump out of a rig and bark at a coyote, tell that to my jack russel whom will not even kill a cat... but she'll bay her like nobody's business! Not all dogs are made to kill animals of prey or competing predators.
We have domesticated these animals from their natural instincts, and it is our job to train them to do what we want them to do. Gunner has shown that he is trained to bay, kill or decoy... and all videos that I've seen have shown with 98% accuracy, he does his job as commanded.
Thanks again Tony for posting the video... let's get out there and tag more coyotes... with one shot kills in mind, but peace of mind knowing that some shoot with decoy dogs capable of killing an animal not humanely shot initially.
TonyTebbe
New member
Wow. Our internet connection just started working again...little did I know this thread would still be going. Leave it to me to bring spice up a boring period on the board.
All is good and I appreciate all the viewpoints of the topic...except one. The whole "any mutt can jump outta rig and bark at a coyote." comment kind of gets under my skin. It's like someone calling your wife fat or your children ugly.
I take it as one of those "my dog is better than yours" or "my buddy's dog is better than yours" kind of thing, based on what I've seen. If someone doesn't like how I trained my dog, I really don't loose any sleep over it. He is my dog and this is how we hunt. He sits outside, next to the calling rig and the gunshot is his queue. Like it or not, that is how I trained him. I've heard of other guys being very heavy handed with their dogs. I've never struck or will never strike my dogs. That is poor dogmanship and assinign. But...don't call my dog a mutt please.
It is ironic that you sent me this in a PM the other day:
Quote:Are you gonna bring Gunner to the Predator Masters hunt? I'm sure i'm like most people and would enjoy seeing him work.
I don't believe I will let my dog anywhere near you or let him eat anything you give him.
As for George's comment on the photos I posted about a month ago, being clearly a gut shot coyote, that was not the case. It was a big male coyote that we called up out of a cactus flat adjacent to a pasture we've been having serious fits with calfing. We had a heifer calf that gotten eaten and had to put the mother down, due to her uterus being eaten out during a rough delivery. We called up this big male that spooked out early and was shot running away. The shot took off his back leg. He attempted to get out of Dodge, but Gunner stopped him. By the time we got to them, the coyote wanted to stand his ground and fight. I got chased 4 times and almost bit, trying to get the photos. The gun was back at the stand, where the rancher left it. It was a bit chaotic, but the potential calf killer was dead.
I've been there with the whole running of greyhounds, ballpin hammer and piece of barbwire. I loved running hounds for 10 years or so. My true love has always been and will always be calling in coyotes. I've always wanted to mix the two together to enjoy both of my passions. That is what we are doing here, it's what I enjoy, and we put down a mess of fur and loose very, very little of them.
Well, it's time for me to whittle a new stick. I'll look around for some oak or hedge in my shop. I have a client to pick up at the airport this evening and I plan on using it all week.
Thanks all...
Tony
All is good and I appreciate all the viewpoints of the topic...except one. The whole "any mutt can jump outta rig and bark at a coyote." comment kind of gets under my skin. It's like someone calling your wife fat or your children ugly.
It is ironic that you sent me this in a PM the other day:
Quote:Are you gonna bring Gunner to the Predator Masters hunt? I'm sure i'm like most people and would enjoy seeing him work.
I don't believe I will let my dog anywhere near you or let him eat anything you give him.
As for George's comment on the photos I posted about a month ago, being clearly a gut shot coyote, that was not the case. It was a big male coyote that we called up out of a cactus flat adjacent to a pasture we've been having serious fits with calfing. We had a heifer calf that gotten eaten and had to put the mother down, due to her uterus being eaten out during a rough delivery. We called up this big male that spooked out early and was shot running away. The shot took off his back leg. He attempted to get out of Dodge, but Gunner stopped him. By the time we got to them, the coyote wanted to stand his ground and fight. I got chased 4 times and almost bit, trying to get the photos. The gun was back at the stand, where the rancher left it. It was a bit chaotic, but the potential calf killer was dead.
I've been there with the whole running of greyhounds, ballpin hammer and piece of barbwire. I loved running hounds for 10 years or so. My true love has always been and will always be calling in coyotes. I've always wanted to mix the two together to enjoy both of my passions. That is what we are doing here, it's what I enjoy, and we put down a mess of fur and loose very, very little of them.
Well, it's time for me to whittle a new stick. I'll look around for some oak or hedge in my shop. I have a client to pick up at the airport this evening and I plan on using it all week.
Thanks all...
Tony
dogcatcher
Active member
Tony, I wouldn't let it bother me, I see a lot of "professional" jealousy in some of the posts. Most probably just wish they could be doing what you do.
yoteslayer0927
New member
The most frustrating aspect of this whole deal is I have hunted with Tony and he is a stand-up guy. My gut feeling is that Duane is as well and would gladly hunt with him if I got the chance..... There is no reason for there to be any jealousy or animosity...They have similar businesses hours, miles, states, apart.....
My guess.....Take away all this internet crap..... start'em with clean slates, Throw the two of them in a hunting rig together with their dogs for a week of hunting they probably would be pretty good friends..........My 2 cents.....
My guess.....Take away all this internet crap..... start'em with clean slates, Throw the two of them in a hunting rig together with their dogs for a week of hunting they probably would be pretty good friends..........My 2 cents.....
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