So you think you can shoot????

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Another thing I suppose you fellas that disagree with LRH think that hunting in a blind or a tree stand is hunting. Ha an animal will come to water or your trail head sooner or later, "tell me thats hunting, not" You guys probably drink in camp go out the next morning and hope that everyone comes back alive. Yeah I know your type been a guide for years, seen just about everything.




kapac - Happy to have such an authority on hunting all regions of the USA onboard. With insight like that, I wait with baited breadth for your next post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
By all means lets not make you wait! All regions the whole USA maybe not but from all over the US for sure. They all come down here and want there thermos of coffee and alcohol and sit on a water hole or tree stand. Oh yeah then tell us after the first couple of days of hunting that they will give us a large sum of money to get them the size of bull they want no matter how. There is at least one guy a week like this, so yeah... and?
 
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By all means lets not make you wait! All regions the whole USA maybe not but from all over the US for sure. They all come down here and want there thermos of coffee and alcohol and sit on a water hole or tree stand. Oh yeah then tell us after the first couple of days of hunting that they will give us a large sum of money to get them the size of bull they want no matter how. There is at least one guy a week like this, so yeah... and?




Hunting is not one bit like that here, and I don't know anyone that has ever even been on a guided hunt.

I take offense to you lumping me in with your "hunters"

Anyhow, best put lots of days working in the forest to get a shot at a trophy up here. Even then it doesn't hurt to have some luck.

But seriously kapac, there are some good coyotemen on the board. Bet lots of them don't even drink /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

But only the best of the best can pull off the 1000 yarder. I'm about 800 yards short /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Long range shooting is fun,challenging and interesting, I agree. Ive enjoyed long range shooting many many times thru my life. I used to go prairie dog shooting a couple three times every summer here in Arizona and New Mexico, had a blast.
The difference lies in the fact shooting at paper or steel gongs or prairie dogs or rock chucks or coyotes, is a vastly different proposition than shooting at big game animals, like elk,deer or antelope.
I don't suscribe to the paradigm of a bug, is a rat,is a dog, is a boy. A prairie dog is not as worthy of concern to my mind as is a fine bull elk or trophy buck. Taking long shots at chucks or prairie dogs and hitting,missing or wounding troubles me not one bit, but the same on big game animals borders on criminal to my mind. No real hunter I know, or those who scribble in the gun rags would sling a 30 caliber bullet at an antelope at over a thousand yards.
I agree with Sled dog, it's an interesting stunt, but a stunt none the less. A 30 cabliber bullet, spun thru a 30-378 or whatever other rifle you choose, is like every other rifle bullet. After leaving the muzzle, it's under the force of gravity, and begins dropping like a rock, and believe me, at 1,000 yards, it aint inches, it's feet that the bullet is dropping,and damned fast at that.
A heartbeat,a very light breeze, unseen to the shooter somewhere between him and that 1,000 yard antelope can change a lucky hit, into a nasty wound, and a lost animal. Long range shooting is best left in the competition arena, or shooting prairie dogs or coyotes if one so chooses,or sniping at insurgents in the big deserts of Iraq. Hunting big game animals, long range shooting would be taking a 350 yard shot, thats a long shot under hunting conditions, and an iffy shot for most hunters.....but a thousand, just a stunt,and one that shows little or no respect for the game the hunter is after.
 
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You have to admit, with better hunting style this fella wouldn't have to shoot 1000 yards.



I'd agree he didn't HAVE to shoot the antelope at 1000YDs, I think that's the point. He WANTED to shoot it at 1000YDs for the challenge.

I don't know if you've ever shot antelope before, but there's no "hunting" involved. Driving across WY it would be unusual if you didn't see at least hundreds and often many thousands of them from the interstate at 75mph.

It CAN be a challenge to belly crawl to within a few hundred yards of them (depending on where you/they are), or it CAN be a challenge to shoot them at long range, but neither case involves what I would call hunting. Where they ARE is pretty obvious to anybody with two eyes.

To me, "hunting" is figuring out where the game is and/or where it's going to be. That is necessary no matter what. The rest of it (short range, long range, bow, rifle, spear, etc.) is just details and how we choose to challenge our chosen skill set.

It just depends on what kind of challenge floats your boat I guess.



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The main thing is all hunters have to know there limitations and if you don't think you can make a clean shot then pass it up, there willbe another day.



I think that's probably the biggest difference between the LRH and the average "big game hunter" (nobody here I hope), and what defines "responsible" or "irresponsible" IMHO.

The typical long range hunter won't take a shot that he doesn't know he will make. It's too bad that the same can't be said about the average 6-shot-a-year "big game hunter" (or the 200YD HMR/coyote shooter).

Any idiot with the money can buy a 300WinMag and wound a deer at 200YDs (and WAY too many do). No experience is needed to wound a 200YD deer.

Successful long range hunters are almost by definition very experienced. The game itself dictates that. You could buy all the right equipment if you had the money, but you can't buy the necessary skill and experience to shoot long range. The tiniest miscalculation at 1000YDs, range, wind, aim, anything at all, and you won't be a few inches off, you'll be off by many feet or yards.

You may get the occasional inexperienced idiot with more dollars than sense that wants to shoot long range and buys the equipment, but he isn't going to hit anything, so morality and responsibility won't really even enter into the equation.

There is no "lucky shot", "Kentucky windage", or "just hold on his back", with a 1000+ YDs first round hit. You either know exactly what you are doing, or you miss by a mile.
 
By some "experts" estimation this guy is a wreckless slob. A guy in sand land doing the same thing to a diaperhead is a hero. Both deserve our respect for their ability, as they are the best of the best at what they do. Personally, I'd rather attempt a two hour stalk and slip an arrow through the antelope's ribs as I believe that is a greater challenge. Some of the holier than thou preaching and chest pounding I've seen on this subject is nothing more than B.S. spewed by those who except by luck can't do what this guy does consistently. Remember, it ain't braggin' if you can do it.
 
Thompson is in this for the money!!!! Anyone who charges $2000 dollars for a day and a half class to the average shooter and claims that "you too can be this good" is nuts. This is the "good" footage...we wouldn't be so "sold" if we saw the other 25 animals he missed or wounded. Call and ask for the free CD...I did....these guns are out of the box.... I am pretty sure that Tubbs wouldn't step to the 1000 yard line with a stock Weatherby....

cjg_beef said it correctly.....it takes years for this kind of skill to be achieved.... I am raising my BS flag!
 
Now that is the truth ! Like I said earlier, he doesn't show his misses, does he ? My BS-O-Meter pegged out immediately upon seeing his video.
 
Long range vs short range.

I've spot/stalked coyote for many yrs. Most all of them were during snow cover ground conditions. Some days the snow was fluff & very quiet[Not much challenge there, getting close]. Regardless, I killed them. Some, I gave a free pass, as it was to easy[whats wrong with me].

Some Winter's the snow was hard/crusty, & very loud. "What a challenge to get close[< 1/4 mile] up on one". This to me was much more rewarding & challenging. My abilities, against the coyote's abilities.

Needless to say, during loud ground cover conditions[whether frozen loud soil or crusty loud snow]. My killing ability dropped greatly. Most Winter's, I shot [100-250yrds] give or take.

Through personal trial & error & useing what I've learned from my mentor's[Dad & his two bud's]. I learned how to overcome some of these loud conditions. Which helped me get close enough for a decent kill shot[bullet energy wise], on some coyote's.

Still a very hard feat to accomplish. So I started shooting/practicing long shots. Done a boatload of long range T-shooting on-off over the yrs with whatever firearm I was useing @ the time. Preparing, for loud ground conditions & shooting. I don't enjoy wounding a coyote[or any other animal] anymore than the next guy. But it still happens, even on a good day.

When I am "comfortable" with my weapon, ammo, yardage & field conditions. I take the shot. I answer to my self, no one else.
 
I like shoot both short range and long range. I bought an EOTECH for my AR just for close fast moving targets (cotton tails, and Jacks). THis past summer I have taken up long distance shooting at the range and out hunting. I've shot Jack anywhere from 25ft to ~300yrds.

It's the variety of the hunting that keeps it interesting for me. Whether you agree or disagree with Thompson hunts, one thing is for sure... your opinion doesn't matter to him! He does what's right for him, and you should do what's right for you.
 
Our opinions most definately matters to him because we are posting them to 1000's of hunters across the nation. The internet is a beautiful tool isn't it? I think there are two different themes in this thread...one is the ethical questioning of long range shooting...and the other is the idea that a short expensive class will transform you into a "one shot long range hunter"...even with an out of the box gun. I am not opposed to taking long range shots...because long range is different for all people using different equipment with different skill levels. I am not questioning Mr. Thompsons ability to shoot at long distances...but to advertise that $2000 smackers and a day and a half of instruction makes you a 1000 yard hunter is irresponsible to the animals we hunt and misleading to people who buy into it...
 
You guys are a joke. Predators hunt. They hunt to eat. They are on fair chase standards with there prey. Humans just kill. You can try to justify it to yourself that you hunt and are on equal footing with your prey. If you really are you are not using any adavantage. No shoes no socks no cars no rifles no bows just your bare hands and teeth quit foolin youself. We kill for the fun of it. And then try to justify it by a means. No one here has to kill when you can go to the store and buy it. Don't Bs any by the means of your killin. Everyone of us gets a different challenge. Long range, short range, or method IE: bow, rifle ect.
 
What I always want to know is what these guys do after the shot when there is no evidence of an immediate reaction. Do they go and look for a hair, a blood trail, etc...? I've shot/seen shot enough game animals to know that a hit is not always 100% evident and you must look for evidence on the ground where the animal was standing..
I've seen the LRH guys use the excuse that they have spotters that can tell. Wrong. That, my friends, is irresponsible, whether legal or not.

Anybody got a good handle on how hard it would be to find the precise point the animal was standing/laying when the bullet was launched? Anybody know whether they invest the same amount of time in getting out there and scouring the ground?

The idea that you are going to get either a clean miss or a lethal hit at that range sounds like wishful thinking. Mother nature controls the environment and does it in an analog, not binary, fashion.

The concept that the long range hunter will not take the shot unless he knows for a fact he can make it certainly categorizes this as a stunt or advertisement. If you know for a fact that you're going to make the shot where is the challenge? Might as well take up bird watching. Isuspect that's not why they do it.
I suspect that they take shots every bit as risky as most of the rest of us. I never take a shot unless I'm reasonably certain I'll hit my target. I'm sure these guys do the same. The difference lies in the fact that I'm not so shallow as to think that Murphy or Mother Nature (or both) might not chose to tweak one of the analog variables at exactly the wrong moment. I don't think they are either, they just have trouble admitting it in public.

My question remains: Do they follow up their shots? If tyhey do, fine. If not, this is nothing but shooting in its' worst form.
 
What I really get tired of is all those people that think they need to inform everyonwe else what exactly the "proper" method of hunting is!

Your version of hunting may not be my version of hunting and nmelon might hunt in a completely diferent manner than redfrog, but all are hunting. If you would hunt like redfrog, then don't but don't get up on your high horse and preach about how your way is the right way.

Getting the game as close as possible is not the only form of hunting. I too try to get as close to the game I am after as often as I can, but that said I also enjoy and I said enjoy shooting prairie dogs at LONG ranges! Yes close is fun but longer is better, explain that? The same goes for jack rabbits and rock chucks. Just for clarification, I don't think the species matters when it comes to ethics or right or wrong. It is an animal. If it is ok to shoot varmits at long range then....wait coyotes are varmints too?

Tell me how many of you ripping on the long range hunters go out and shoot prairie dogs or varmints? Do you spot and stalk them too....yea right! I think that is called hypocritical, but just a little bit.

C
 
I guess I'm a hypocrit of the worst sort... I didn't go out and look for blood every time I missed a prairie dog, either.

Probably won't go p-dog shooting again either, 3 or 4 times of that is enough for me. That said, I think those of us that have shot at prairie dogs and stretched our effective range have admitted that to ourselves and don't try to portray it as such a cut and dried thing as I see being done by the long range proponents.

Sorry, I don't put a varmint on the same level as an edible game animal. That is probably a heritage thing and doesn't fit in well with todays' PC world. Still kinda old-school here.

Oh, to answer the question about spot and stalking p-dogs, some of the best fun I had was sneaking down a fence line and past an old shed shooting prairie dogs as I went. Closest one was shot at about 6 ft. Also caught a young one when he tried to run through tall grass. To me, that was a lot more fun than setting on a hillside with a spotter.
 
Yep, I'm a hypocrite.

I in no way place a ground squirrel on the same level as an elk, deer, or other big game animal. If banging away at distant small varmints is your deal, great. Shooting at big game animals at 1000 yards while 10 feet from the truck is not hunting in my book, pure shooting is what that is.

A guy who tells the story of stalking and shooting his buck in its bed at 50 yards barely raises an eyebrow in some circles. The guy who shoots his buck at 600 is some sort of super hunter. I don't get that at all.

If you think state game departments aren't monitoring this long range cross-canyon shooting craze for big game you have your heads in the dirt. Seasons will get shorter, limitations will be placed on equipment. Just watch.
 
JoeF, I too don't put vermin on the same level as big game, and note I said big game not edible game. I probbaly won't eat a cougar or bear and they are big game to me.

That said I don't value the life of a praire dog any less than that of a deer. Coyotes are absolutley my favorite things to hunt, then comes elk and then bow hunting mule deer. I enjoy hunting and shooting each animal I am after wether it be prairie dogs at 500-600 yds or deer at 20 yds with a bow.

I have had a similar discussion with a freind regarding why I hunt in general. He says, "we have cows for eating, that is their purpose and what they are for, why kill elk or deer since there is no "need"?" I told him that I feel that the cows life is no less significant than that of the elk. Just because we as mankind deemed the cow to be less of an animal and doomed to be a food source does not mean that an elk has any more of right to live. Does that make sense?

Now you might look at an elk or deer as a superior animal, but that doesn't make it so. Maybe for you, but not necessarily for everyone.

I'm glad you liked spotting and stalking Pdogs, however you are not the norm, the nmajority of shooters like the long distance shots.

C
 
it's funny how upset people can get during the off-season. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif Can't we all just get a long?/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif We are all hunters. Whether we hunt with a bow, knife, rock, rifle, shoe, stick...etc... WE ARE ALL HUNTERS and as long as whatever method someone else uses to hunt is within the boundaries of the law we shouldn't get our panties in a bind about it if it doesn't coincide with our beliefs.
 
Lonny, I agree it is pure shooting. I just don't like people preaching ot other people on how they think others should be doing things. My way isn't necessarily right for my buddy or you.

I like elk more than prairie dogs too, but just because you don't place them on the same plain doesn't make it so. And I am not here to call you out on that, that is your right.

Enjoy your hunting in whatever form you do it!

C
 
cjg, I don't think anyone is getting too wound up, just stating their opinions, beliefs, etc... They do not all have to be the same. No one should shy away from that.

I even posted a fair and well-intentioned question or two for the "other" side.

BTW, I think Rodney King is a piss-poor role model so I won't be quoting him. That said with a smile!
 
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