Ethics?

Quinton,

Have you ever heard me snivleing and whinning that I can't call in a coyote even in the spring. Your point on giving them a rest is well taken. If people would put together lots of land to hunt as I have over the years they could be in fresh coyote up into May, maybe even June, if you could take the heat /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

For what it's worth. I don't hunt much after it greens up and the bugs and snakes come out, unless someone is having a problem. I don't think much about the pups starving, not that I would like it, but it sure doesn't keep me awake at night. I have looked into the eyes of a little girl that just had here pet dogs guts drug out in her yard and had to listen to the fight. I have also seen healthy cows killed while giving birth. I have seen calves trompled to death or crippled while their mother was trying to defend it from a pack of hungry coyotes. The list goes on from here. I hear it all the time that coyotes get the blame that is mis-directed. This is no doubt true, but the coyote is innocent by no means. The argument that this is just what the coyote does is a weak defense against killing them. I'm glad that your rancher buddy doesn't have coyote problems, that's great but that's not the case everywhere.

I also agree that deer populations in some parts of the country are out of control and should be thinned but that is a totally different discussion.

Your right about Texas land owners wanting to charge a tresspass fee to kill coyotes. But I pay not one red cent for my access because I get results and provide a service. Actually some landowners pay me to come kill coyotes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. WOW !!. When I leave the killing usualy stops. Are they fools /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

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If I was just in it to make death I could kill many more coyotes than I do in the same time frame year after year.



I and others that don't put up fur don't kill coyotes just to make death. If that were the case most would quit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. We hunt coyotes for the challenge and experience just as you. If you were hunting just for fur you would do much better with traps, but you too enjoy the challenge and the hunt.

As for my coyotes bringing more that 5 bucks, they just might, but 20 is the break even line for me and what I consider my time is worth. Been there, done that :[duh]:. Some of the counties I hunt have 20 dollar bounty, which is much better than skinning. I'm not rich by no means but the cost of my time and the pay back doesn't even out. Bobcats are another story /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I admire you for putting up all your fur and if I lived in Nebraska I would probably do the same.

We have debated these things before so at some point we will just have to agree to disagree.

This is such a subjective debate that we as a group will never totaly agree, but we need to be careful trying to scratch any timelines or stipulations on each other. The weather will warm soon and there will only be a tiny portion of people out calling. This may be natures way of giving them a rest.

Byron
 
I'll add my 2 cents for what they are worth.

I have to side with the hunt for fun guys like Byron said. I too hunt and kill them all year, mostly for adc work during the spring and summer months. But if I am out and about and find a good calling area, heck yea I'll try it out.

I agree as well that the whole "ethical" debate is some what biased anyway. The agrgument that tqaking elk, deer, turkeys etc. during the rut is a good example. Why is it fair to take these animals during the natural mating time? It is easier for sure, but is it right? I really don't sit and think about it that much.

Q, you are a good guy from what I have heard and what I have read. You give and take crap like a guy should. Too many of us get our feelers hurt if somebody doesn't agree or says something against what we have said. I think you killing 200 yotes a year says plenty about your credibility. And if everyoine killed 200 then maybe, MAYBE, we might have a different discussion on our hands.

I know my wife hates it when I forget and actually tell her that I found the den and killed all the pups. My mother-in-law thinks I am the devil when I jokingly tell her that the pups are the easiest because they don't run as fast. But the ranchers do pay and they do not care how old the coyotes are. Plain and simple.

Hopefully I will get the chance to hunt with you in the fall or winter Q, I would love it. I need to experience the whole night hunting thing like you do under the moon, sound great!

Do what you do, just don't tell me what to do! Easy enough. My wife and a whole list of others already have that job!

C
 
I guess the best thing about this thread is that while all the guy who want to kill coyotes with pups, is that while they are reading and typing, they are not out killing.
Does this make anyone mad? We all own the coyotes and no one owns them, when you hunt in the spring your are unfairly affecting my hunting in the fall and winter. So while your out hunting in May, I am going to use your house for a party and I don't think I am going to clean up after myself.
I am just kidding about this, but if you are familiar with The Tragedy of the Commons, it should open your eyes to what a few guy who just have to kill a coyote are doing to the rest of us. If we can not regulate ourselves, some will regulate us for us. I do not feel it is ethical to hunt coyotes with pups. Ethics are ethics because they apply to everyone, and if you don’t life by then you are unethical. This is a good debate, and I am not trying to offend anyone but how can you tell me, if you love and care about coyotes it is ethical to kill them in the spring. I love and respect coyotes, and have gained my feeling through hunting them. So you can go out and kill wet females, and step on my toes if you want, I will turn the other cheek, but don’t complain when the antis use your “ethics" to shut us down.
 
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Perhaps, in nature, we are the superior predator to coyotes and are simply, by nature, keeping down the competition- they are eating what we want to eat- deer; at least that's what I hunt for- the meat as much as the trophy...
 
I am pretty new to the board and appreciate all the knowledge I have gained so far from some great posters and topics. I have thought about this topic quite a bit. I don't what to offend anyone, with my views which are exactly that, my views. As a coyote hunter I always wondered why people did hunt coyotes in the spring. Everyone is free to do as they please but personally I would rather see the pups raised to an age that they will eagerly come to my call. That is what does it for me. Not standing over a den sight killing defenseless pups. That would do absolutely nothing for me. If this scenario does it for some of you guys then fine, that is your God given right to do as you please. I just don't understand the logic in springtime hunting. It’s kind of like keeping every fish you catch, if you don't leave a few to reproduce some day you will go to a favorite river or lake and there will be nothing to catch. This has happened at one of my past hot spots, there are fish still in the river but you wouldn't know it. Now I understand there are exceptions to spring hunting. I have no problem with someone helping out a rancher that is having problems with coyotes. I know from experience the damage that they can cause especially in the calving season. Just my two cents.
 
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Everyone is free to do as they please but personally I would rather see the pups raised to an age that they will eagerly come to my call.



For what it's worth, they will come to the call when they're about 4 to 6 months old! I am the camo-clad devil that killed the two pups in Uncle Jay's video, "COYOTE BEHAVIOR". They will come just as soon as their little legs will carry them, and their "PARENTS" will let them walk into the call FIRST!

Do as you like, but if ETHICS were really at play here, then put your guns away, and run them down with sticks! Killing the pups is easy.....ya just don't lead 'em as much! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I also agree with Byron. It's AMAZING how fast an anti will call for blood once Fi-fi becomes poodle chow for some poor, cute, defenseless, "endangered", minding his own business, we moved into "their" territory, just trying to survive coyote. ETHICS MY ARSE!
 
I usually quit calling them at the end of Feb.,,, never thought of it as ethics though,,, I count on the "there'll be more in my area next fall" theory,,,, its for selfish reasons, I want them to be able to pup out,,grow up and become a real problem for someone else. Thier percieved problem has been my joy for 40 years.

I do enjoy hunting them in Feb.,,, ya know they're just dating then,,, not like they are married yet,,, probably doing it out of wedlock,, hell they deserve it ! I love doubles.
Time to go fishing.
 
WOW.....4 pages of "Discussion" and not one person
has said they have gotten their feelings hurt and is going
home and not coming back!!!
I like this kind of "controversy"...I applaud everyone here
for being able to keep it civil....

Personally, I belive,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll have another drink and keep this opinion to myself....
 
Some states allow and even PAY hunters to kill coyotes year round, even from the air.

Some states put a season on them.

I wonder if maybe the state wildlife biologists might just have a good handle on it for their particular area?

Just a thought.
 
I have come around to a self imposed season. My choices are for selfish reasons only. I do not dispute that coyotes cause damage to livestock. Those coyotes should be removed, I would help if I got a call but the likely hood of that happening is small. I don’t know that I have the skills to remove THE problem coyote. I can go in and take the gravy and leave the potatoes for the pros, but to get the coyote that is doing the damage would be a stroke of luck. That is just my personal assessment of my own skills. To each his own, I have friends on both sides of the fence

I wonder at times how much the depredation issue is human caused. T&PC had an article in the 2003 June/ July issue about the problem in Maine. Removing coyotes from the deer yards using snares helped the deer herd. The underlying problem is the diminished habitat for deer. This put higher concentrations of deer in smaller and fewer deer yards, making them an easier target for the coyote. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it is easier to blame the coyote than look a little deeper at the problem at hand. There are similar thoughts about the antelope in Northern Arizona too. I see pounding the coyote as a short term remedy and improving habitat for long term effect where game animals are concerned.

Sorry I wondered off topic a bit.
 
Salemdawger,

I too am a graduate of Utah State Univ. I as well spent many hours at the coyote research facility studying and watching. I also do ADC work for the rancher that started the whole research facility.

First off I do not enjoy standing over a den and killing pups. But they pay me to kill the pups too so I do. I think we all agree that killing the whole lot for a rancher is a different beast all together.

I don't really get your analogy of partying at my house while I'm out? Like you said, nobody owns the coyotes, and we all do. How is it unfair? Is it not a choice you make not to hunt them during the spring of summer? Sounds like you made the choice, nobody made it for you. Your example is more like me saying, "it's unfair that you make more money than I do, you should't work so much or at such a good job so we can be equal"! That is more along your lines of thinking, doesn't make much sense. Everyone does what they can when they can. Simple to me?

Now I don't want to step on your toes, nor offend anyone. But Ethics are personal. Who is anyone to judge anyone else? Hunting with a compound bow is unethical to some. Scopes give unfair advantage. I haven't seen or found an animal that can out run a bullet from a rifle, again unfair advantage. Where do you draw the line? And when you do, it is your line. Don't draw a line for anyone else.

Why is it my fault that you stay home and I go out hunting? Is it your fault that you know of a better fishing hole than I? Like you said Salemdawger, it is ours, collectively. Just because it is the elk bow hunt, can the grouse hunters not shoot their shotguns in the same area? Who is in the right there? I've been on both sides of that story...wow!!!!

I will conceded that the coyote gets a bad wrap as far as blame goes. They get it for everything. But I have seen them kill 146 lambs in 2 weeks too....that is a lot. Sure they didn't kill all 146, but I killed 8 coyotes in 2 days up in those mouintains and missed a bunch more. They do do their part.

Maybe we can hook up this fall and do some hunting since we live pretty close. Even if we don't agree on this topic.

Take it easy,

C
 
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Bigc, thanks for the reply. Your analogy about bows vs. rifle are not a matter of ethic. Ethics are not individual, they are collective. For example, every hunter agrees, that you obey the law, hunt by fair chase standards, and try to kill the animal as quickly and as humanly as possible. A few rifle hunter think bow hunting is unethical because the animal suffers a slow death. These guys are not wrong in their believes, just in their facts. What you hunt with is a choice, how you go about the hunt is a matter of ethics. If you hunt with a musket that is ethical, if you spotlight with a muzzleloader, than you are not ethical, If you shoot ducks on the water, that is unethical. Ethic are defined as: A system of moral principles, rules or standards that govern the conduct of members of a group. Ethical codes of conduct approach human behavior from a philosophical standpoint by stressing objectively defined, but essentially idealistic, standards (or laws) of right and wrong, good/evil.

I am not arguing about killing coyotes in and around calving grounds, or around lambs. No one would argue with truly protecting livestock. By you and I both know that coyotes get blamed for every cow, sheep, horse, or chicken that dies of natural causes or poor animal husbandry or that gets hit by a car.

I am talking about weekenders who just can’t stop hunting out of sure greed or blood lust. If you are just hunting coyotes for something to do, why can’t you do something else for a couple of months for the betterment of all callers and recreational hunters. I have absolutely no problem with Q because he kills 160 coyotes a year, he is a lot more experienced than I and has earned his knowledge and skill. I would have a problem with someone who runs 160 coyotes with a snowmobile or motorcycle and claims to be a hunter. I also have no problem with you if you catch 10X more fish than me if you do it legally and ethically. I guess I will never be able to understand that it is ok to kill coyotes with pups in the den just because it is legal and it gives someone something to do. You don’t bed down your neighbors wife just because you might be good looking enough to do it, her husbands out, of town and it is legal.

As to the argument that it is OK to kill coyotes in the spring because they are kill rabbits who have babies in the den that will starve, Coyotes have no choice and that is nature, humans do have a choice, and the technology, and the responsibility to be ethical stewards of the land and wildlife

I truly think that the practice of killing coyotes in the spring is huge fuel for the anti hunters. I can see the headlines now “Hunters kill Coyote Moms Leaving Her pups to Starve in the Den” If you don’t think that will sway a person who is on the fence the wrong way you are in denial.

BigC I would love to go hunting with you in the fall. I am sure you could teach me a thing or two after my horrible success rate this year in Utah. I have called coyotes for 16 years an am calling fewer and fewer in every year. This was my worst year ever. Where do you live, and what was your major at USU? When where you there?
 
SalemDawger,

Are you saying that if we don't give in we will lose everything? We give and give and give. Name one single concession that the antis have EVER given. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GIVE. PERIOD!

The antis have been claiming exactly what you eluded to for years and even have resorted to shock-value ads in newspapers with manufactured photos. For Years.

To bow down and cowtow is to give their causes more credibility. Every time some official allows them airtime out of courtesy, not wanting to offend or rock the boat, knowing all the while that they are full of misinformation and letting them spew their lies, it allows some other dimwit to swallow the bait like a hungry bass. Allowing the damage to grow is part of an unintended event that comes back to bite everyone. If their knuckles were wrapped in public when they start their dribble, eventually their true motives would be exposed backed by nothing but lies. Their credibility would start to fade and their money coffers would begin to dry.

Have you ever look closely at those who whine and cry and march around carrying signs? Giving airtime to their misguided causes is alarming in that they acquire a little bit more power so they can force people like you and me to become become more like them.

Ethics has nothing to do with reality? Ethical Lawyer? Ethical Drug Dealer? Ethical Sportsman? Right and wrong are at the mery of the courts and judges and has nothing to do with law. Ethics? Nothing more than a vague concept and a weapon to be launced like an RPG.

Is it wrong to hunt within the parameters of the law?
 
Thanks to the help I've received here on setting up my e-caller and gun I will be legally hunting coyotes at night on my property until the cat fishing gets good. I will start earlier next year, but again I won't stop until the fishing gets good.
 
Jay I am not saying that the main reason we should stop hunting in the spring is because of Antis. We should stop because I killed a wet female once and I felt terrible. Do you feel good when you kill a coyote when it has pups in the den? If you care about coyotes it should upset you enough to stop. Ethics are not vague , or hard to define. If you believe in God, you know there is a right and a wrong. I would lick someone to justify killing wet females in the spring as a sport. Not one person can other than to say, “I got me a gun, got me a call, aint aganst no law Im gona kill me a dog” That is just selfish. Today was a beutful day and I had time, I wanted to go calling, but I know it is wrong, they are prenent now and I am happy to leave them be. I just don’t understand why people can’t see this.
it is wrong to kill wet females. I did it onec and I felt
 
Jeff,

I really don't want to hear about your ethics on weapons choice. There is no such thing. I choose to hunt coyotes with a rifle and that’s what I will hunt them with. FYI it's the year 2005 we have been out of the dark ages for centuries now, you probably should trade in your sticks for a new remmy. As for killing pups you pretty much took what I said totally out of context. If you definition of a pup is 4-6 months than I am totally guilty of pup killing. Lets see if a female coyote has a gestation period of around 60 plus days, and say she gets pregnant the 1st of February that would mean the pups are born end of march first of April. This would put the pups at a full 6 months old come 1st of October. Exactly the time I start hunting again. So I guess I'm guilty. I was referring to people that are recreational hunters that go out in the spring kill a pair of coyotes and then destroy pups that are not able to fend for themselves. As for the antis I dislike them as much as anyone here. And think we definitely all need to stick together. Like I said in previous post I let them lay so there are more to shoot come fall. I guess it is for totally selfish reasons. Just want more to come to the call. I guess I was raised conservation minded. Never been one to kill just to kill. I love the experience of calling them in it is such a rush, but it ends the second you pull the trigger. The only problem is I have not found a way to replace that ultimate end of pulling the trigger. Its kind of neccesary to complete the experience. I have a deep respect for all of the creatures that have been created and try to display that respect while hunting afield, I guess thats what you call ethics.
 
I understand now.
It's March.
All coyotes are pregnant.
Those who hunt in spring are grammatically illiterate, selfish heathens.

“We should stop because I killed a wet female once and I felt terrible.”
This is absolutely priceless. I can’t remember the last time I actually pulled a quote. I blinked my eyes and shook my head like a dog chewing on a toad. You win the prize.

It is perfectly understandable that feelings are expressed no matter what time of year you are out and about. Deal with it. Don’t condemn those who deal with it better than you do by throwing out the “God” card. If I’m going to hell for killing a coyote, it’s because I killed a coyote and not because of the time of year I killed it. The clarity of right and wrong in your eyes should be, in all reality, the law of the land, right? I mean you said that you once shot a wet bitch and felt bad, therefore nobody should experience what you felt?

I squashed a spider once. Twern’t no ordinary spider let me tell ‘ya. It must’a had a thousand or so baby spiders a ridin’ on its back. Should I feel bad?
I caught myself a big ol bass once. When I cleaned it out I discovered a million eggs inside. Should I feel bad?
I kilt me a pigeon once who was a crappin’ all over my roof and dripping on the siding causing a great big mess and ruining the siding. Turned out it had baby chicks. Should I feel bad?

Since you’ve figured it out, and I don’t want to get a lickin’ tell me. Exactly WHEN is it OK to shoot a coyote? When it is one month old? Three months? Ten Months? Before it experiences its first winter? When? Will I get an email when it’s time?

If my math is correct you are only 1/3 anti-hunting. Correct? About four months? Seems absurd and even insulting doesn’t it? But you are using the very same tactics and arguments that the true anti-hunters are using against us all 12 months a year. Not just four.

I don’t shoot coyotes for fur. Am I unethical? I live in Arizona and coyotes don’t even know what fur is here.

There have been countless times I have decided NOT to kill and have many, many hunters who can attest to that fact. I suppose in the logical sense being formulated here that I should get special dispensation or brownie points because I was being unselfish.

I have fought, and will still fight to maintain everyone’s hunting privileges. What I won’t do is secularize portions or facets of hunting. This is very reason that hunters cannot unite and put an end to nonsensical tripe being thrown at us by the anti-hunters of the world.

I have never known anyone who delights in killing pups out of a den. Your inference that spring time hunters are of that ilk is narrow minded at best.

SalemDawger, we definitely disagree on what I see as the big picture. I’ve never seen an inch an anti-hunter didn’t take and I’ve never seen an inch they conceded.
 
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Jay,

You have put into words the essence of the springtime coyote hunting ethics question! My Hat is off to you SIR!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

You Da MAN!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

$bob$
 
Wow!! Been gone a day or so and you guys still haven’t hashed this thing out yet? Imagine that!! LOL

TOM64, Kyray, BigC or anyone else, if you hunt with me you are hunting for free but why would you want to do that? Our online Predator Master Redfrog has deemed me or at least what I say un-credible. I am sure you would be much better off to drop him a thousand dollars and go on one of his weekend hunts. With tips and travel expenses you could probably do the whole weekend for under $1,500 if you pinched your pennies. Don’t even ask him to hunt in the spring though. He once told me that he found it distasteful to kill the parents of anything and have the offspring die a slow death.

Anyway it is now clear that the man cannot do anything cruel or inhumane or unethical to any animal as long as what he does is legally. If you are in Alberta and run coyotes with hounds you are not only unethical but you are an immoral, cruel poaching POS. legally speaking of course?

The way some of you sound it is the antis that are responsible for game laws and that every game law that is passed is giving in to the antis? You can’t shoot coyotes year around in New York or Arkansas. Why not? It is based on scientific evidence as well as emotion. They know that callers do not make any real difference in overall coyote numbers in their state. They also know that very very few people hunt coyotes during the summer. Statistically it doesn’t matter one way or the other weather there is a season or not but they adopted one anyway to honor the dening season. It is a nice gesture to the public. It tells people that coyotes like other animals have earned the right to raise their young in peace.

Was it Ohio where the antis tried to shut down dove hunting? Someone here should remember what state it was? It was quite a while ago but the notion was thrown out because scientific evidence proved that hunters had no statistical effect on the dove population at all. What hunters killed was blurred out by natural mortality. No season is needed on doves but it is a nice gesture just to have one anyway but it is a far cry from giving in to the anits. I think we should always have the right to shoot doves as dos everyone else here but we don’t NEED to do it year around just like we don’t NEED to shoot coyotes year around.

No season is needed on coons in Nebraska but we have one anyway. It is a season out of respect not just science. Wyoming has a small fraction of the coons that we do and they can be hunted year around. Just because there is a season on something doesn’t mean all is lost and the antis are going to take over. They are often enacted simply out of respect for the animal.

It is sad to say but we do need laws to govern our activities. We have salvage laws on deer and elk and other antler and horn baring animals because it was really pi$$ing off the moral majority that people were sawing off the heads and leaving the rest lay. Redfrog also told me that he didn’t think anything was wasted in nature but I still think he agrees with these laws? Now days it is the law to salvage these animals and everyone is happy. The law ticked off a lot of people at the time but now with the law being what it is we have defined our ethics as a whole.

I am not saying that there should be salvage laws on coyotes but I think it would be funny as hell if there were. LOL Can’t everyone agree that if a guy CAN utilize what he kills he probably should even if it is just to practice up for deer and such? We don’t need to save fur but we don’t NEED to save venison either. After all “nothing in nature goes to waste.”

As most of you know coyotes and coyote hunting is near and dear to me and like all animals I choose to take up arms and hunt I have a lot of respect for the coyote. It strikes a nerve when I see people that show a total disregard for the welfare of coyotes. Look at it this way….

If I were to get on a deer hunting BBS and said I liked to shoot deer and leave them lay just so I could shoot coyotes off of them how well do you think the members would receive me? If I really pored it on with the arrogant sarcasm I am known for they would light the torches and grab their pitchforks. LOL I would be burned at the proverbial stake for my complete lack of morals and ethics even if what I did was legal. The funny thing is I could legally get away with it too. If I bought a tag, killed a deer and checked it in it is considered salvaged in the eyes of the law. After that, it is mine to do with what I want. I could really get people fired up over that one couldn’t I?

Some people argue that it is ok kill coyotes by any means or manner with the half-baked logic that the coyote are cruel to deer and livestock so they deserve the same treatment. What coyotes do is sometimes perceived as barbaric but they are only using the tools that God gave them. At the dawn of time when we crawled out of the trees with our pointy sticks and stones we were the same way. We killed with what God gave us and it was barbaric. The similarities between the two are that we were both doing it out of necessity. Animals can’t be cruel or in humane because they are animals! They react, they don’t think. To be cruel or inhumane you have to be able to understand that what you are doing is causing unnecessary pain and suffering. Animals don’t act out of malice. That is a human thing. Humane is derived from human because humans make conscious decisions and understand the consequences of there actions. You can’t just wash your hands of responsibility and accountability for your actions because nature is cruel and you perceive other animals that way. You know exactly what you are doing.

Being cruel, unethical and inhumane is real. That is why we have words for it. The defense people use for the slow death of puppies is that it is a cruel world and that is just the way life is. When someone makes a conscious decision to shoot a wet female they know the pups will die a slow lingering death. If you know you are going to be the direct cause of a slow death of an animal is that immoral or is it justified because you are getting even with them for killing other animals?

By not hunting during the denning season is not bowing to the antis Jay. It is just not choosing to hunt. You are not bowing to the antis for doing so and you are not going to go to hell for killing a coyote. I am sure there are plenty of other reasons you are headed south after the big guy pulls your card. LOL

BTW Jay you said “I have never known anyone who delights in killing pups out of a den” How bout on an den? I guess you missed the thread last summer that RanUtah started. He posted a big bloody picture of two puppies that were shot right on the den hole. Judging by the grin from ear to ear I would say he took plenty of delight in it. Don’t bother running a search for the thread because he was booed off stage within a day or so by the moral majority here. I guess some people thought that killing puppies tarnished our image for some “holier than thou” reason. LOL

No one has the moral high ground when it comes to coyotes or any lawless animal and I am not telling anyone what they should or shouldn’t do. I am just venting my personal views and opinions like everyone else that is participating in this thread and trying to understand everyone else’s ideals. It is hard to wrap my mind around the fact that some people like to shoot puppies on den holes or shoot wet females or even run the risk of doing so. From a sportsmans perspective show me the virtue in shooting puppies off the hole.

If you don’t get anything from all my ranting then understand this. These are my personal views and opinions in a nutshell.

There is no reason out side of legitimate ADC work that anyone needs to hunt during the dening season.

OJ Simpson was guilty as hell.

It does give the sportsman brownie points to hunters and non-hunters alike to honor the denning season or fawning season or what ever.

It is always a better idea to try and utilize the animals or parts of animals we kill if it is possible. That gives us brownie points as well to non-hunters.

I believe that promoting fur and other wild life products is an important function of a sportsman because it keeps our activates out in the open. The more people that see this kind of thing the more it will be accepted.

AC/DC is the greatest hard rock band of all time.

Giving coyotes a rest during denning season is a nice gesture of respect.

Giving coyotes a rest during denning season may help insure a higher success rate come fall.

Year around pressure makes hunting in your areas less productive “because there is a higher number of educated coyotes Redfrog not because I think we are killing them all off. LOL Did I really need to tell you that?

Presents should always be opened Christmas day rather than Christmas eve.

Seasons are not based on Science alone.

If a season is placed on an animal it is not always to protect the animal from extinction.

Seasons are not always a result of anti pressure.

Seasons are good because they help enhance hunting experiences for everyone.

Seasons are good because they give animals a well-deserved break from the gun.

Seasons are good because they are almost always closed around berthing times.

This is what I think and it is worth what you paid for it. Food for thought at best. LOL

Good hunting.

Q,
 
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